Short Irons bent flat?

[The Salt Vampire]

My buddy was telling me that some pros have their long irons bent a degree or two upright as they want to avoid the miss to the right (for a righty). They have their mid irons standard and their short irons flat as they want to avoid the pulled miss with short clubs. He said that when people get fitted by some clubfitters they just fit off of one or two clubs in the middle of the bag.

Does this make sense?

Recently, I went for a free fitting and they only tested the five iron and determined me to be standard with that club.

When I miss my short irons it is usually a bad pull and am considering bending them a degree or two flat. I am happy with the ball flight on my mid and long irons.

What do think? Go for the flatter short irons, or not?

[Andy299]

Originally Posted by The Salt Vampire

My buddy was telling me that some pros have their long irons bent a degree or two upright as they want to avoid the miss to the right (for a righty). They have their mid irons standard and their short irons flat as they want to avoid the pulled miss with short clubs. He said that when people get fitted by some clubfitters they just fit off of one or two clubs in the middle of the bag.

Does this make sense?

Recently, I went for a free fitting and they only tested the five iron and determined me to be standard with that club.

When I miss my short irons it is usually a bad pull and am considering bending them a degree or two flat. I am happy with the ball flight on my mid and long irons.

What do think? Go for the flatter short irons, or not?

I have no problems of hitting the ball on the correct line, read intended line, with standard lie clubs (their length is also standard).

Lie fitting can be done based on wrist from ground measurement and also dynamically with using a mat and see what section of the sole of your club makes contact with the ground (mat) when you are hitting balls from this mat.

In the first case your current swing may not suit the lie they came up with for your clubs, in the second case, if you do not swing all clubs in the same manner or if you make any swing changes you would need to have at least some if not all of your clubs' lie readjusted.

Either way, just because they fitted you for a five iron and decided standard lie is the right one for you (I assume standard length for your five iron) it does not mean that they made all the clubs in the set with the correct lie. So, I would have that checked first.

Also, unless you hit from a totally flat and level surface and deliver the face of the club to the ball on the correct line and with a square club face, you will not hit the ball on the intended target line.

Ball position in your stance and the way you swing your irons can also influence the result of your shots.

Check these with someone you trust who also has the skills to help.

[fore142]

my clubs 8-lw are a degree flatter than the rest...

[The Salt Vampire]

Originally Posted by fore142

my clubs 8-lw are a degree flatter than the rest...

Was that because of a pull problem? And did you get them bent after using them for a while? Thanks.

[LyleG]

Your lie anlges should be bent to fit you, no exceptions.

[BStone]

The only clubs that I have a bit flatter than the rest are my wedges, and this is because I tend to hit every wedge shot with a slightly open face. My 3-PW are 3 degrees flat, and the SW/LW are 4 degrees flat.

[fore142]

Originally Posted by The Salt Vampire

Was that because of a pull problem? And did you get them bent after using them for a while? Thanks.

not really, i guess somewhere along the line someone told me to try it, i did, and have had it done since.

yeah i know, this doesnt really help you...

[The Salt Vampire]

Originally Posted by fore142

not really, i guess somewhere along the line someone told me to try it, i did, and have had it done since.

yeah i know, this doesnt really help you...

It does help, thanks. I hit some very good short irons, but that is more a result of distance control than anything. I often hit them 10-15 feet pin high to the pull side.

It is more of an issue with my set clubs (Titleist PM leftys). They are an odd, but good, set. They were a limited edition like Mickelson's set. Cavity back long irons 3, 4 and 5 irons. The 6 and 7 have a sort of crease in the back and the 8, 9, and PW are muscle back blades.

I don't do pull the pill often with my Vokey 52 or my Cleveland 58.

I think that I am going to go for it. 1* flat with the 8, 9 and PW. Half degree with the 7 iron and the rest stay the same. Will post with results when I get it done.

[dave.]

Thats bizarre.How do these pros know that on every approach with a long iron the trouble is on the right,and vice versa with a short iron?

I suppose what they men is they want a draw with a long iron and fade with short iron.

It sounds like utter nonsense to me,the only pros I know want to shape the ball either way depending on the shot in front of them,having to rely on lie angles is bizarre and I've never heard of it.

By using lie angles you are hoping the heel digs in and pulls the toe round,thats what a club too upright will do.What will happen on a wet day followed by dry conditions? ball will fly all over the placemyou wuld no control at all.

[Andy299]

Originally Posted by dave.

Thats bizarre.How do these pros know that on every approach with a long iron the trouble is on the right,and vice versa with a short iron?

I suppose what they men is they want a draw with a long iron and fade with short iron.

It sounds like utter nonsense to me,the only pros I know want to shape the ball either way depending on the shot in front of them,having to rely on lie angles is bizarre and I've never heard of it.

By using lie angles you are hoping the heel digs in and pulls the toe round,thats what a club too upright will do.What will happen on a wet day followed by dry conditions? ball will fly all over the placemyou wuld no control at all.

Dave I agree 100%.

If the short irons have the correct lie in the first place and that is a big if in this case (as I already said, HAVE THEM CHECKED FIRST), flattening their lie on purpose is a band-aid solution to fix swing problems with the short clubs.

But then again, not my clubs and everyone is entitled to do whatever they want to do with their own clubs.

[The Salt Vampire]

From Stan Utley's new book, "The Art of the Short Game". I will paraphrase as I don't want to violate any copyrights. If you are at Borders or B&N it is right at the top of page 37. (This must be where my buddy got it from)

Mr. Utley states that his 3 and 4 iron are more upright, his mid irons neutral and his short irons flat.

He goes on to state that most people end up with clubs that are too upright because the fitter thinks they are a slicer, which is good with the long irons, but will be a pull with the wedge.

He also states that he does not want to miss right with the long irons and left with the short irons.

From my limited experience, if I pull a long iron it is usually lower and does not go as far. If I miss big with a long iron, it is usually a push. I can hit the way-too-far-pull-hook 9-iron with the best of them.

I grew up with a local guy who is now a famous Tour player (no namedropping). We stayed in touch when he first tried to make it and struggled and struggled. I had forgotten about it, but he told me back then that the Tour players use clubs with specialty tweaks that would be quite unfamiliar to most golfers.

With the internet and message boards, a lot more of that type info is out there. Maybe this is one of those things.

[usa1950]

Originally Posted by dave.

Thats bizarre.How do these pros know that on every approach with a long iron the trouble is on the right,and vice versa with a short iron?

I don' think that's the case at all...... The pros are not trying to avoid "trouble" right and left... rather they are trying to increase the likelihood that they willl have more shots dead at the pin, rather than a tendency to have lots of shots be, say three yards to one side or the other due to lie angle.

If bending my short irons flat (I'm relatively tall but have long arms) helps, I am all for it. When hitting balls on the range, I do tend to leave the toe clean, but the heel gets MUCH dirtier. On the occassions where there are no grass areas to hit from, and I hit from a mat.... this becomes even more evident.....

[Pa Jayhawk]

One main reason for pulling your wedges is that it is a shorter club and you have a more upright swing. So the tendency is to come over the top.

I have heard it is supposed to help if you open your stance slightly as this will allow you to more easily clear the hips and finish facing the target. Kinda like a head start. This works with me to some degree, although I have this problem as opening my stance more is not as comfortable and seems to contradict the logic in my mind, and just worked more on my swing. I would make shots that were worse than just being a little left. Just could never get a real grasp on that concept of what seemed aiming further left.

[The Salt Vampire]

Originally Posted by Pa Jayhawk

I have heard it is supposed to help if you open your stance slightly as this will allow you to more easily clear the hips and finish facing the target.

Seems to contradict the logic in my mind. I would make shots that were worse than just being a little left. Just could never get a real grasp on that concept of what seemed aiming further left.

It is a game of opposites isn't it? Hit down, to make the ball go up. When you swing easier it seems to farther. Swing to the right to make it go left, etc... .

[The Salt Vampire]

Had the 8, 9 and PW bent 1* flat and the 7 iron bent a 1/2 degree.

Played yesterday and it was a world of difference. On the 5th hole, I hit the flag with a 2nd shot 9-iron on a par 5. It was actually a bad break, the ball rattled hard off of it and ended up about 20 feet away and I missed the eagle putt. If it had missed the stick, it likely would have been tight.

Hit the 8 iron tight on the next hole. Birdie. Only had one other short iron. On 18, I hit 9 iron tight, but missed the 5 footer.

All I can say is, the three 8 and 9 irons that I hit were my best of the year. It was amazing. My short irons started on line and stayed on line.

As an aside, to another post. The 73* wedge was outstanding. You just have to be selective as to when to use it. I had 4 ridiculous up and downs, that were straightforward with it. With my 58* they would have been very tough.