Golf balls - comparative data - impact on driver fitting

[RickinMA]

Does anyone have or know where to find any comparative spin rate data on some of the popular balls?

I'm looking for data on ProV vs e5 vs e6 vs tour fire vs D2-feel vs range balls

I asked for ball recommendations because I've been hitting my driver too high and it lands steeply and gets no roll.

The driver should be a good fit based on a reputable club fitter's recommendations backed by zelocity launch monitor data. Now I'm wondering if I had used a different ball during the fitting if I'd have been given different recommendations

I like the balls that spin for pretty much everything except tee shots - so I was trying to find a ball that would be a good compromise, but now I'm thinking I shouldn't compromise - maybe the answer is going from a 10.5 to a 10* driver - this might allow me to lower my tee shots and maximize carry+roll while letting me continue to do my thing around the greens.

I can't just bring myself to buy another driver without understanding how this will impact my tee shots - I paid a good fitter for his opinion - I don't want to second guess it until I know for sure that I have the wrong stick in my bag

Thanks

[PingZing2]

I don't want to give you any bad news but I don't think you are going to find the answer you are looking for in a different ball. Spin rates on the balls will make a small difference in distance but if you are hitting them to high it is one of two things. You had a small change in your swing that is impacting ball flight or there was a problem in the selection process when your fitter selected a shaft or club.

I am sure that Lyle or someone like that could get into more details but you may need a new shaft or change or a lower degree loft.

What driver and shaft do you have currently?

ETA Have you tried any of the distance golf balls or something that is intended to get less spin? Just to see if you are still getting excessive spin with that type of ball too. It would be a good indicator as to if on the off chance it may infact be the ball.

[RickinMA]

currently playing a 44.25" 10.5* TM r5n with prolaunch blue stiff shaft

I've tried low-spin distance balls and they're great off the tee but the rest of my game gets ugly (10 year ago I was playing in high school with titleist tour balatas) - I like the higher spinning balls for my approach shots with mid and short irons and pitching/chipping

my driver is good at the range and good with lower spin balls - get the flight I'm looking for (looks high compared to most, but it's not crazy and I know to maximize distance I needed to get the launch angle up) - when I get out to the course and tee up a nice new ball, I find myself teeing it low to try to help keep it down or backing it up in my stance

I can't tell you how many times I've seen a pitch mark in the fairway 1-5 feet behind my ball - To get some roll I'm thinking I need to adjust my angle of decent down a bit and I'm trying to figure out the best way to do that without sacrificing carry distance

I don't think my swing has changed much (had lessons as a kid so I don't think about it much, just kinda do it) although I suppose it's possible

I really just want to understand all (or at least most of) the variables so I can think about it and make a decision based on the way I play the game

If I need to buy a new driver, I will, but I don't want to just start hoing drivers like a madman

[ualtim]

Originally Posted by RickinMA

If I need to buy a new driver, I will, but I don't want to just start hoing drivers like a madman

What, you have something against Ezra?

[BStone]

Teeing the ball lower/moving it back in the stance can actually increase spin on the ball. Many times it makes you hit the ball with a descending angle of attack, thus imparting more spin on the ball. To minimize spin, you want to hit the ball at the lowest point in your swing or slightly on the upswing, this will give a higher launch angle with lower spin.

[RickinMA]

Originally Posted by ualtim

What, you have something against Ezra?

not at all - I'd love to buy a bunch of stuff but need to come to terms with the fact that my wife wants to stay home with our baby instead of returning to work in a few weeks - kissing 65% of our income goodbye is not easy - but that's a topic for a different thread

I really just want to understand the factors before I make a move

[RickinMA]

Originally Posted by tmag

Teeing the ball lower/moving it back in the stance can actually increase spin on the ball. Many times it makes you hit the ball with a descending angle of attack, thus imparting more spin on the ball. To minimize spin, you want to hit the ball at the lowest point in your swing or slightly on the upswing, this will give a higher launch angle with lower spin.

makes sense - it's what we do with irons....

doesn't the lower effective loft of the club reduce the launch angle though?

[LyleG]

Originally Posted by PingZing2

Spin rates on the balls will make a small difference in distance but if you are hitting them to high it is one of two things.

I disagree entirely. The ball you choose will have a tremendous impact on your ball flight with all clubs including the driver.
Spin rates can change huge amounts with different ball. I have seen 1000 rpm changes with no other changes that the ball.

[Andy299]

RickinMA,

I have three questions:

1) when you were fitted using the launch monitor, were you indoors or outdoors?

2) were you using your preferred ball to get fitted for the driver?

3) if not, do you know what ball was used?

[BStone]

Originally Posted by RickinMA

makes sense - it's what we do with irons....

doesn't the lower effective loft of the club reduce the launch angle though?

Yes, it would lower launch, but it adds backspin which causes the ball to rise quicker which causes ballooning and then for it to fall out of the sky with little to no roll.

[RickinMA]

Originally Posted by LyleG

I disagree entirely. The ball you choose will have a tremendous impact on your ball flight with all clubs including the driver.
Spin rates can change huge amounts with different ball. I have seen 1000 rpm changes with no other changes that the ball.

Thanks Lyle - this is the info I'm looking for - do you have any data on different balls you can share? I figure even if it's based on someone else's swing, it'll probably give me a sufficient data point

Originally Posted by Andy299

RickinMA,

I have three questions:

1) when you were fitted using the launch monitor, were you indoors or outdoors?

2) were you using your preferred ball to get fitted for the driver?

3) if not, do you know what ball was used?

The fitting was inside (a dome with about 100 yrds for the ball to fly)
and the fitting was done with the Srixon range balls they had at the dome - they weren't in bad shape, but they're still range balls

I have to imagine range balls spin a whole lot less than a proV or B330 and probably significantly less than say a Bridgestone e5 or other similar balls

I think I have two options if I want to maximize my driver distance
1) play a lower spin ball (which I'm not thrilled about because I like some spin around the green)
or
2) buy a new driver that will give me a similar launch angle but lower spin rate to try to create a lower angle of decent with my preferred ball or balls so I can get some roll out of my drives (currently all carry)

being a member of this forum, we all know I'll be buying a new driver... but the question is, which one and with what specs - say I were to pick up another driver similar to the r5, I would think I'd need to decrease loft slightly - I know I got the highest ball speed with the ProLaunch shaft so I wouldn't want to mess with that, but I also know that loft will have the largest effect on launch angle and distance- so how much loft to I drop? .5*?

Or - if I went with a different design - Say the Geek DCT or Wishon 919 for example. I've read the DCT is low launching for it's loft. So would I look for a 10.5*? The 919 is said to launch higher than it's stated loft by up to 2* compared to the Wishon 525 because of it's center of gravity (similar to the hi-bore I guess) so would I go with something around 9*?

Sorry about the long post - just hoping to figure this out without returning to the fitter

Thanks for any input

[Andy299]

Originally Posted by RickinMA

Thanks Lyle - this is the info I'm looking for - do you have any data on different balls you can share? I figure even if it's based on someone else's swing, it'll probably give me a sufficient data point



The fitting was inside (a dome with about 100 yrds for the ball to fly)
and the fitting was done with the Srixon range balls they had at the dome - they weren't in bad shape, but they're still range balls

I have to imagine range balls spin a whole lot less than a proV or B330 and probably significantly less than say a Bridgestone e5 or other similar balls

I think I have two options if I want to maximize my driver distance
1) play a lower spin ball (which I'm not thrilled about because I like some spin around the green)
or
2) buy a new driver that will give me a similar launch angle but lower spin rate to try to create a lower angle of decent with my preferred ball or balls so I can get some roll out of my drives (currently all carry)

being a member of this forum, we all know I'll be buying a new driver... but the question is, which one and with what specs - say I were to pick up another driver similar to the r5, I would think I'd need to decrease loft slightly - I know I got the highest ball speed with the ProLaunch shaft so I wouldn't want to mess with that, but I also know that loft will have the largest effect on launch angle and distance- so how much loft to I drop? .5*?

Or - if I went with a different design - Say the Geek DCT or Wishon 919 for example. I've read the DCT is low launching for it's loft. So would I look for a 10.5*? The 919 is said to launch higher than it's stated loft by up to 2* compared to the Wishon 525 because of it's center of gravity (similar to the hi-bore I guess) so would I go with something around 9*?

Sorry about the long post - just hoping to figure this out without returning to the fitter

Thanks for any input

In my view, you must try the driver with the balls you are going to play with when you get fitted. Unfortunately, fitters are fitting you with whatever balls they have on hand rather than with the one you play. I went through a similar experience during fitting. I asked to be fitted using my golf balls, but the fitter refused. I subsequently refused to be fitted!

I agree with Lyle that the ball you play makes a big difference when it come to spin rates. Your fitter has taken your money, probably sold you the driver too, when he should have known that on the course using your driver the results will be different from the range results. You can draw your own conclusions from this!

Launch monitors are far from perfect and even when the measured/calculated results are close to actual ones, they depend on a number of factors. The calculated spin rates are measured with the balls you actually hit and also whether the balls are correctly placed on the tee. When the lines drawn on the balls are not aligned correctly, the measured/calculated spin rates are going to be incorrect, even though your swing path, angle of attack and your swing speed is the same swing after swing!

As far as driver specs are concerned, there are tolerances in manufacture that are acceptable. These tolerances may vary manufacturer to manufacturer or even within models of their clubs. EG your 10.5* driver may have an actual loft of 10.1*. The 10* driver you may buy, could have an actual loft of 10.3*. Similarly the face angle of the driver will have a +-tolerance. the one you have cold be +* and the one you will buy could end up having a -* from ideal face angle. So go to an open range/course/open space and try drivers you like with your own balls, that you can collect later. And if you can, buy the driver you demo-ed rather than order a new one (referring to the tolerances I mentioned above).

Whether you go back to your fitter or not is up to you, but I would take his advise with a grain of salt.

[RickinMA]

Andy thanks - I agree with much of what you said

The fitter I went to uses a Zelocity launch monitor (radar based instead of photo based) - and I actually took the specs he recommended and bought my driver elsewhere (paid about half and you're right - the thing could be 11.5* or 12* within TM's tolerances) - the smart thing would probably be to go back to him, tell him the issue I'm having with my current driver, get fitted again with my own balls and have him build me a driver, but I can't help but tinker with it myself

I mentioned the DCT and the 919 as possible replacements, both are component heads that would allow me to have loft and face angle hand selected, eliminating the "stated loft" vs "actual loft" question

[Andy299]

Originally Posted by RickinMA

Andy thanks - I agree with much of what you said

The fitter I went to uses a Zelocity launch monitor (radar based instead of photo based) - and I actually took the specs he recommended and bought my driver elsewhere (paid about half and you're right - the thing could be 11.5* or 12* within TM's tolerances) - the smart thing would probably be to go back to him, tell him the issue I'm having with my current driver, get fitted again with my own balls and have him build me a driver, but I can't help but tinker with it myself

I mentioned the DCT and the 919 as possible replacements, both are component heads that would allow me to have loft and face angle hand selected, eliminating the "stated loft" vs "actual loft" question

Tinkering with clubs is an awesome experience. If you have the right tools and skills that is the way to go. I build my own clubs for over ten years. Learned a lot along the way. It is a never ending process as there are always new heads, shafts, etc are coming out.

Re: driver heads, Lyle thinks the best head at present is made by Maltby, model CT250. Being new to this forum, I am not sure how to put the thread address in here for you, but you can find it pretty easy just look for it.