What do you think #1?

[Andy299]

All responses are welcome. However, it is not important that you do, unless you wish to share your views with other forum members.

I put this up here so any of you can consider the implications of .830 COR and possible benefits or the lack of it when it comes to new technology offerings, like driver head designs and how it may apply to us.

I did not want to continue with this topic on the other post. Also, I do not want to offend anyone, so I am not posting my views this time.




The .830 COR


A) Do you think that every driver head that has the .830 COR will get the ball out to the same distance? (All other things being equal)


B) Do you think that if everyone swings at the same speed with the exact same club head and the matching shaft flex for their speed would have the exact same distance achieved?


1) That is, anyone who swings the club at 75mph will have the same driving distance as everyone else who swing it at 75mph?

2) That is, anyone who swings the club at 95mph will have the same driving distance as everyone else who swing it at 95mph?

3) That is, anyone who swings the club at 115mph will have the same driving distance as everyone else who swing it at 115mph?

4) That is, anyone who swings the club at 135mph will have the same driving distance as everyone else who swing it at 135mph?

5) Would you expect an identical or at least very similar yardage gains for every 20mph swing speed increase?

6) Would you expect different yardage gains between the four swing speed categories above?

7) in other words, do you think that every golfer will get the exact same benefit out of any driver head?

8) would you entertain the possibility that the benefits in distance for the 75mph golfers were zero yards compared to their existing driver.

9) would you entertain the possibility that the benefits in distance for the 95mph golfers were 7 yards compared to their existing driver.

10) would you entertain the possibility that the benefits in distance for the 115mph golfers were 7 yards compared to their existing driver.


11) would you entertain the possibility that the benefits in distance for the 135mph golfers were 25 yards compared to their existing driver.

The yardage gains were picked arbitrarily by me and if you wish you can replace them with any numbers.

[Sandpiper3]

I dont get this question either...?

[warbirdlover]

The .830 COR


A) Do you think that every driver head that has the .830 COR will get the ball out to the same distance? (All other things being equal) NO


B) Do you think that if everyone swings at the same speed with the exact same club head and the matching shaft flex for their speed would have the exact same distance achieved? NO


1) That is, anyone who swings the club at 75mph will have the same driving distance as everyone else who swing it at 75mph? NO

2) That is, anyone who swings the club at 95mph will have the same driving distance as everyone else who swing it at 95mph? NO

3) That is, anyone who swings the club at 115mph will have the same driving distance as everyone else who swing it at 115mph? NO

4) That is, anyone who swings the club at 135mph will have the same driving distance as everyone else who swing it at 135mph? NO

5) Would you expect an identical or at least very similar yardage gains for every 20mph swing speed increase? NO

6) Would you expect different yardage gains between the four swing speed categories above? YES

7) in other words, do you think that every golfer will get the exact same benefit out of any driver head? NO

8) would you entertain the possibility that the benefits in distance for the 75mph golfers were zero yards compared to their existing driver. YES

9) would you entertain the possibility that the benefits in distance for the 95mph golfers were 7 yards compared to their existing driver. YES

10) would you entertain the possibility that the benefits in distance for the 115mph golfers were 7 yards compared to their existing driver. YES


11) would you entertain the possibility that the benefits in distance for the 135mph golfers were 25 yards compared to their existing driver. YES

VERY WELL PUT!! I GET WHAT YOU WERE SAYING IN YOUR PREVIOUS POST NOW... (What do I win?)

[Andy299]

WBL, Just my THANK YOU and appreciation for finally someone understanding what I was trying to say all along!

[warbirdlover]

Andy, you're welcome... (And some of us are just SMARTER then others in this forum!!).

[chemboy2]

Originally Posted by Sandpiper3

I dont get this question either...?

I'm betting word problems gave/give you fits in math...

Sorry Andy, nothing more to add on this one but I did respond to your other "what do you think?" post!

[Augster]

This is getting rediculous. I knew I should have posted in the other topic. Here goes...

To get the ball to go the maximum length, with a driver, you only have a couple of factors. We will assume .830 COR. There is swing speed, then optimized launch conditions for your swing speed.

That's it.

(Clubhead mass is the last factor and is nearly insignificant. If you can swing a 200g head at 100 MPH, and another player can swing a 210g head at the same speed, the 210 swinger will get just a little bit more distance when clubs are optimized to the user due to the heavier mass. Now if it was a 200g head vs. a 1000g head and able to swing the same speed, the distance change would be significant. But in real-world golf, most driver heads fall into about a 10g zone and it insignificant in real-world yardage)

Inside the optimum launch conditions you have such factors as loft, angle of attack, CG of the clubhead, spin, launch angle etc.

Once you optimize those factors, anyone who hits the middle of the clubface will deliver the ball the EXACT same distance as anyone else at the same clubhead speed.

One can say "Well this clubhead has a lower CG than this other one giving me better results". If you are getting better results, and you haven't increased or decreased your clubhead speed, your previous launch conditions were not optimized for your swing speed. Simple as that.

When you change shafts, or change clubheads, lofts, or even swingweights, and do this without a launch monitor to optimize everything, you are basically doing trial and error optimization. You can see large increases sometimes. All this means is that you are NOW closer to optimized launch angle for your swing speed. Are you at optimum yet? Without some collected data, you can never really know for sure.

Once you get yourself professionally optimized for your swing speed on a launch monitor, your work is done. If you never increase, or decrease, your median clubhead speed, and if you never change your swing, messing with angle of attack etc., you will never need to change your driver.

This entire argument assumes center contact. Once you start missing the middle of the clubhead you start getting into MOI. How long you will hit the ball when you don't pure it. THIS can change for each clubhead as MOI's get bigger and bigger.

[Andy299]

Originally Posted by Augster

This is getting rediculous. I knew I should have posted in the other topic. Here goes...

To get the ball to go the maximum length, with a driver, you only have a couple of factors. We will assume .830 COR. There is swing speed, then optimized launch conditions for your swing speed.

That's it.

(Clubhead mass is the last factor and is nearly insignificant. If you can swing a 200g head at 100 MPH, and another player can swing a 210g head at the same speed, the 210 swinger will get just a little bit more distance when clubs are optimized to the user due to the heavier mass. Now if it was a 200g head vs. a 1000g head and able to swing the same speed, the distance change would be significant. But in real-world golf, most driver heads fall into about a 10g zone and it insignificant in real-world yardage)

Inside the optimum launch conditions you have such factors as loft, angle of attack, CG of the clubhead, spin, launch angle etc.

Once you optimize those factors, anyone who hits the middle of the clubface will deliver the ball the EXACT same distance as anyone else at the same clubhead speed.

One can say "Well this clubhead has a lower CG than this other one giving me better results". If you are getting better results, and you haven't increased or decreased your clubhead speed, your previous launch conditions were not optimized for your swing speed. Simple as that.

When you change shafts, or change clubheads, lofts, or even swingweights, and do this without a launch monitor to optimize everything, you are basically doing trial and error optimization. You can see large increases sometimes. All this means is that you are NOW closer to optimized launch angle for your swing speed. Are you at optimum yet? Without some collected data, you can never really know for sure.

Once you get yourself professionally optimized for your swing speed on a launch monitor, your work is done. If you never increase, or decrease, your median clubhead speed, and if you never change your swing, messing with angle of attack etc., you will never need to change your driver.

This entire argument assumes center contact. Once you start missing the middle of the clubhead you start getting into MOI. How long you will hit the ball when you don't pure it. THIS can change for each clubhead as MOI's get bigger and bigger.

Augster, I was looking for simple response like WBL's , but thank you anyway. Andy

[warbirdlover]

Take two bullets at the same velocity. One weighs 180 gr, the other 220 gr. The 220 gr bullet will release much more energy at impact then the lighter bullet at the same speed. This would apply to clubheads also.

[Eracer]

Originally Posted by Andy299

Augster, I was looking for simple response like WBL's , but thank you anyway. Andy

When you ask a question you should not expect any kind of answer. People have opinions, and we express them as we see fit.

But you know this.

[warbirdlover]

These questions take all the FUN out of golf!!!

[Eracer]

Originally Posted by warbirdlover

These questions take all the FUN out of golf!!!

Golf is supposed to be FUN !?!?!

[LyleG]

Originally Posted by warbirdlover

These questions take all the FUN out of golf!!!

We have a winner.

They also dont really help anybody with anything.

[chemboy2]

Who said golf is supposed to be fun?! Golf is about self-torment, plain and simple.

Also, I actually disagree that this takes the fun out. I really quite enjoy reading/learning about physical dynamics of the game. I may not be the sharpest pencil in the drawer (I was a B+ physics/calc student) but I enjoy it non the less.

[MGP]

Originally Posted by warbirdlover

Take two bullets at the same velocity. One weighs 180 gr, the other 220 gr. The 220 gr bullet will release much more energy at impact then the lighter bullet at the same speed. This would apply to clubheads also.

True, but since F = 1/2mv^2, the velocity of the object is really the major factor in force at impact. For a rifle bullet going maybe 4000 fps, a few grams of mass makes a big difference at impact. For a golf club head a few grams doesn't make much difference in force at impact. Pick the clubhead speed up 10 mph and now you've got a significant force increase at impact.