.5" over standard shafts-pros vs cons

[zclements]

I just installed the old satin finish project x shafts in my ping eye 2 +s. I have asked before and been told that I need a half inch over standard in my irons going on the ping fitting chart.

What I am wondering is that if I make them .5" over standard what all will it affect? They are black dot standard lie.

[ezra76]

It would make them play to an effective flatter lie angle. Most of the time irons are bent upright when playing over standard length to compensate.

[zclements]

I was told by a ping fitter that I needed shafts .25" over. If I go to .5" over (cause I like to choke down some) would that affect the lie very much???

[horstmc]

Originally Posted by ezra76

It would make them play to an effective flatter lie angle. Most of the time irons are bent upright when playing over standard length to compensate.

I'm concerned that I may be misinterpreting, but wouldn't a longer shaft cause the toe of the head to go up (more upright). Therefore, to compensate, the lie angle needs to be bent flatter?

[RickinMA]

Originally Posted by horstmc

I'm concerned that I may be misinterpreting, but wouldn't a longer shaft cause the toe of the head to go up (more upright). Therefore, to compensate, the lie angle needs to be bent flatter?

toe up is flat - heel up is upright - it's the angle between the shaft and the ground between the clubhead and the golfer

[horstmc]

Originally Posted by RickinMA

toe up is flat - heel up is upright - it's the angle between the shaft and the ground between the clubhead and the golfer

I feel like an idiot. But it is fun to learn about this stuff. I think I've always had this backwards. So to confirm the correct definitions, if I compare a ping black dot to a ping blue dot (1* upright), the toe of the blue dot would be 1* flatter than the toe of the black dot. Is that correct?

[danscustomgolfshop]

Originally Posted by zclements

I was told by a ping fitter that I needed shafts .25" over. If I go to .5" over (cause I like to choke down some) would that affect the lie very much???

If you choke down to the same spot you normally would hold the club - you have not affected the lie whatsoever

[RickinMA]

Originally Posted by horstmc

I feel like an idiot. But it is fun to learn about this stuff. I think I've always had this backwards. So to confirm the correct definitions, if I compare a ping black dot to a ping blue dot (1* upright), the toe of the blue dot would be 1* flatter than the toe of the black dot. Is that correct?

no reason to feel like an idiot - most of us screw this (or other things)up all the time - and even if you know how the equipment is supposed to work - it's still hard to hit the ball straight

I think it is easiest to ignore the toe and heel - if the soles of both clubs are properly flush to the ground, the angle of the shaft will be more upright on the 1* upright club (the golfer would be a little closer to the ball with the upright lie angle when the club is still soled flat on the ground)

that make any sense?

[horstmc]

Originally Posted by RickinMA

no reason to feel like an idiot - most of us screw this (or other things)up all the time - and even if you know how the equipment is supposed to work - it's still hard to hit the ball straight

I think it is easiest to ignore the toe and heel - if the soles of both clubs are properly flush to the ground, the angle of the shaft will be more upright on the 1* upright club (the golfer would be a little closer to the ball with the upright lie angle when the club is still soled flat on the ground)

that make any sense?

Perfect sense. Thanks for taking the time to explain.

[ezra76]

Don't feel like an idiot... I didn't even know the answer. I merely spew regurgitated info to make myself sound like I know what I'm talking about.

[GoodDay]

Two certified master club makers have told me that 1-inch over standard makes an iron play 1* upright.

I'm not an expert, BTW. But I did go through a fitting recently and didn't stay at a Holiday Inn Express the night before.

Luckily, you have the Ping Eye2+ models that can be bent accordingly after your shaft overhaul.

HTH...

[limpalong]

Originally Posted by RickinMA

toe up is flat - heel up is upright - it's the angle between the shaft and the ground between the clubhead and the golfer

Okay, what am I missing in this thread? Can't believe Lyle hasn't jumped in to this discussion.
Toe up is UPRIGHT... Toe down is FLAT... If you extend a shaft in an iron, theoretically, the iron will play more upright. The longer shaft pushes the head away from your feet, moving the toe higher... more UPRIGHT!

The iron lie angle does not change by adding shaft length. The only way you can change the lie angle is to bend the club. It just will set up more upright... if your hands are in the same identical position they were when the club was shorter.

If the club is too upright, you will likely hook the ball. The heel will catch the turf while the toe... being higher... will close and send the ball left. If the club is too flat, you will likely push/slice the ball. The toe will catch more turf than the heel and you will leave the face open, sending the ball right.

Cobra was one of the first to move to the more upright lies, now considered somewhat standard. When the King Cobra irons were released in the early 90's, folks were amazed how easy they were to hit draws with. Alas, DeLaCruz, Cobra's ghuru at that time, had built them more upright and with stronger lofts. Suddenly, you saw Callaway and others jump on the bandwagon, because that's what the masses demanded. When some hacker could hit his Cobra 9-iron 150... the players in his group didn't want to be thought less a man. Over the years we evolved from 50 degree pitching wedges to the PW's of today harboring in the mid 40 degree range.

Sorry, I digressed. As the toe moves up... as the angle of the club/shaft increases and moves closer to 90 degrees... the club becomes more upright. As the toe moves down... as the angle of the club/shaft decreases and moves closer to zero (if the shaft and blade were a straight line)... the club becomes flatter.

[limpalong]

DaveT's CLub Design Notes

This guy gives some exaggerated pictures to explaiin lie angle.

[zclements]

So you are pretty much saying Rick dont know what the hell he is talking about? Well I did them myself and made them 1/4 " over standard just like ping said. I have been playing standard for years and seem to hit them pretty well so I didnt want to mess with it too much.

[GoodDay]

Thanks for chiming in, Limpy.

So buying a set 1-inch over standard and choking up 1-inch does what? LOL

I found this out the hard way; and thought I was on the right track due to reading. Nothing beats a good fitting, eh?

What should he do with his Eye2+ irons at this point? I understand the Ping fitting system, but when it comes to reshafting them as a DIYer, I'm curious.

Thanks in advance...