Another stupid spining question!

[Eracer]

I'm going to build a spining tool and use it on my steel shafts. I've looked at many previous posts about spining, and I haven't found any mention of exactly where the "spine" and the "NBP" actually are.

When I load the shaft in the spining tool, and the shaft is bending under load, is the spine on the outside of the bend, and the NBP on the inside of the bend? Vice versa? Somewhere else?

Thanks.

[kwcsports]

I think NBP on the outside of the bend and the spine on the inside.

[bames]

I'm not exactly sure, but when I watched a clubmaker do it a few times he told me that it doesn't really matter that much. As long as the axis created by the spine is at either about 3:00 or 9:00. Does that seem right to you, or anyone else out there?

[Eracer]

Thanks for the responses.

I've read a lot of posts here on this subject by people whose opinion I respect. Everybody seems to agree that the NBP (Neutral Bend Position) should face down the target line at address. And the spine should be 180º from that. Problem is, I can't find anything that says "the spine is located along the outside of the bend", or "the spine is located along the inside of the bend, and the NBP is opposite that", or anything like that.

I think the clubmakers here are just so used to the process "rotate the shaft and mark the spine", that they assume somebody who hasn't done it before will know what that means.

One of them will chime in with a definitive answer.

[indacup]

I guess I'm confused...are you asking where to FIND the spine or where to orientate it?

[Eracer]

Originally Posted by indacup

I guess I'm confused...are you asking where to FIND the spine or where to orientate it?

My understanding is:

Orient the NBP so that it points down range at address.

The spine is opposite (180º) the NBP on the shaft.

My problem is:

When I load the shaft in the spining tool, where is the spine? Is it on the outside of the bend, or somewhere else?

[Clugnut]

Originally Posted by bames

I'm not exactly sure, but when I watched a clubmaker do it a few times he told me that it doesn't really matter that much. As long as the axis created by the spine is at either about 3:00 or 9:00. Does that seem right to you, or anyone else out there?

This is my understanding, as well. As long as it points downrange, or uprange, it cannot flex to effect face contact.

I would love to hear from the pros out there, however. I'm doing an entire set tomorrow, so it would be good to know for sure.

[SilverUberXeno]

Somebody tell Clug, quick!

[MGP]

I ran across this article on spining that is pretty good: Spine Finding

The way I read it the spine will be outside edge of the arc the club snaps to. This makes sense to me anyway. Indacup, Lyle or any of the other club gurus can correct me if I am wrong about this.

[warbirdlover]

I watched zaphod spine check a shaft. The spine is at the outside of the arc created and he says (I'm pretty sure) it goes toward the direction you're hitting. But Lyle will come in and tell how full of sht I am and I'll still learn something....

[indacup]

Articles and discussions about spine orientation show some differences in opinion about where the spine is located, however, most clubmakers seem to agree on one particular position, and it is NOT about where the spine is orientated.

Rather, it is where the Neutral Bend Point (NBP), the most flexible part of the shaft, goes. The best alignment position for consistent results, has the NBP facing the target.

With iron shafts, this means that the spine is at 3:00 and 9:00 respectively, as iron shafts have the spine and NBP 180* apart, because all these shafts are bent, to some extent. .
These are Type 1 shafts.

With graphite shafts the story is a little different. The NBP still goes to 9:00 for righties, however, the spines will generally be at 12:00 and 6:00. Type 2 shafts. I say generally, because in reality they are usually close to 12 and 6, but they sometimes are not in these positions and are called Type 3 shafts. That's why we FLO a graphite shafts to ensure that I have found it's most stable plane and orient this stable plane in the 9 to 3 position.

Lastly, and perhaps most important...since you are doing a set tomorrow, make sure that whatever way you do it, you do them ALL THE SAME WAY.

[Eracer]

Originally Posted by indacup

Articles and discussions about spine orientation show some differences in opinion about where the spine is located, however, most clubmakers seem to agree on one particular position, and it is NOT about where the spine is orientated.

Rather, it is where the Neutral Bend Point (NBP), the most flexible part of the shaft, goes. The best alignment position for consistent results, has the NBP facing the target.

With iron shafts, this means that the spine is at 3:00 and 9:00 respectively, as iron shafts have the spine and NBP 180* apart, because all these shafts are bent, to some extent. .
These are Type 1 shafts.

With graphite shafts the story is a little different. The NBP still goes to 9:00 for righties, however, the spines will generally be at 12:00 and 6:00. Type 2 shafts. I say generally, because in reality they are usually close to 12 and 6, but they sometimes are not in these positions and are called Type 3 shafts. That's why we FLO a graphite shafts to ensure that I have found it's most stable plane and orient this stable plane in the 9 to 3 position.

Lastly, and perhaps most important...since you are doing a set tomorrow, make sure that whatever way you do it, you do them ALL THE SAME WAY.

So (for my steel iron shafts) the top of the arc will be the spine, and the inside of the arc will be the NBP. That's what I get out of your explanation and the link MGP provided.

I don't know why this is so confusing. I must be stupid. Or not explaining my question well.

[Rockford35]

Originally Posted by Eracer

So (for my steel iron shafts) the top of the arc will be the spine, and the inside of the arc will be the NBP. That's what I get out of your explanation and the link MGP provided.

I don't know why this is so confusing. I must be stupid. Or not explaining my question well.

Steel shafts, 3 and 9. Downrange is correct. Graphite is different.

Do all your shafts and put the heaviest spine at 9 bells. Best accuracy this way.

R35

[Augster]

Ah, spining.

I will start with the link to Tutelman's newest findings in regards to this black art. All About Spines=

It was written just last week. It isn't a complete analysis yet, it's a rough draft, but most of his findings are quite relevant.

The short answer. Iron spines, in a "feel" tool such as JB's Spine Finder, produce a Neutral Bend Point (NBP). That is the "top" of the shaft after it "snaps" into place with a load on it. Opposite this, 180* is usually the actual spine. You can also "feel" this under load as it is quite firm and the shaft wants to snap away on both sides of it.

Most graphite shafts have 2 NBP's and 2 Spines that you can feel. Generally the spines are at 90* angles to the NBP's. You align the "most dominant" NBP down the target line (9:00). This will put one spine on the top of the shaft at address at 12:00.

After reading Tutelman's article, I definitely have my doubts about feel spine tools and their accuracy. In his article he has found MANY instances where the "feel" method is just finding the residual bend from the steel and not the actual FLO.

In his article, he shows that FLO is the only true way to align a shaft. In the shaft he experiments with in his article, the "feel" spine tool does get you close to the FLO.

A graphite shaft will FLO at 90* angles to each other. Then you put the shaft into a frequency meter at each FLO point and find the highest reading. That is your main spine. Then he aligns that spine at 12:00, top of the shaft, which makes one of the NBPs point down the target line. Graphite shafts.

I finally have my laser attachment for FLO, that I ordered right after reading that article, coming from MyOstrich.com. I will be FLO-ing all my shafts before next season and see if I notice any difference at all. OR if they were ANY different than when I had them spined using JB's tool.

So, I would say before embarking on a spine creation tool, to read the article above. Maybe you'd much prefer to put together a frequency meter instead.

[clint]

Eracer,

freegolfinfo.com has a section in there forum dedicated to club building. There's plenty of good stuff in there. I think I've seen Lyle's name in it a time or two.

Clint