Tour Swing Update!!!

[indacup]

Here's the latest on the two new Driver heads coming in from TourSwing.

NAMES AND DESCRIPTIONS
The X-plode is the 460cc version of the 420 cc Proton but with the
expensive Ti face used exclusively by TourSwing as well as a different exclusive
soleplate employed to allow weight distribution more towards the rear (and out).



The Renegade is a 445cc unique shaped head which WOULD have been a square
shape, but instead of taking material from the face, the weight was taken from
the sides...and unlike all other Square/Tri/Hex heads, the weight was placed to
the rear, spread apart. These also employ the the proprietary expensive Ti blend
on the faces.




PERFORMANCE DIFFERENCES
The X-plode with it's deep face has a higher spin rate and GOBS of carry. Unlike
many 460cc drivers, this one is a bit more "workable" than most it's size...

These heads play pretty true to loft...the first batches due out in January will
come out in 9 & 11 degree lofts, right handed only.

The Renegade is the only high MOI offering that provides very low spin....matter
of fact, when ordering these, go up a loft, because the spin rate is so low.

Originally, TourSwing ordered only 9.0 and 10.5 lofts...but seeing that the low
spin rates from their initrial testing surpassed even THEIR expectations, there
will be either a 12 or 13 degree offering down the line.

Intentional toe and heel hits resulted in almost no noticeable loss of
distance....OR ACCURACY.

I got a call in tonight from the test team in Wisconsin who said one guy had a
swing speed of 104, using the Renegade had a ball speed of 167, averaged 282
carry at around a 2400 spin rate and 14.5* launch angle.

PERFORMANCE and OTHER SIMILARITIES
Both have a 40mm deep bore, short hosel to maximize feel.
Both have a very solid "non tink" sound at impact.
Both use the same proprietary Ti face material that when compared to SP-700
demos (they had) resulted in a min 6 yards added carry.


DELIVERY, PRICING and other stuff......
At this time, both heads will be retailing for $169.00. Granted a few
bucks higher than some...but these are both extremely expensive heads to
manufacture.

Pre-book on both is $139.00.

However......

I am expecting delivery of about 20 of the Renegades on Monday (9* and
10.5*).....I would LOVE to get these in the hands of someof you who will play,
test and REVIEW it (good bad or otherwise).

If you are willing to do so...and bearing in mind the low spin numbers (since
we'll only have 9 and 10.5), we'll sell these from Mondays delivery for
$129....no delivery charge in the CONUS.

This should be a very good year for TourSwing....and the component industry.

Aside from these two new drivers....TourSwing has a couple Champions players using their drivers....a top PGA (5+ time winner) close to agreeing to use their shafts after seeing a 20 yard increase.

Oh, speaking of shafts....

TourSwing will be introducing two new shafts under the new the new "AVENGER" banner.

I have samples of two of their future releases in my shop...profiled them and these are both incredible.

Remember the old Mercury shafts that guaranteed a deflection of no MORE than 1 cpm stated flex on a sticker, regardless of orientation?

These do the same.....Now imagine that kind of consistency with a shaft that provides feel...and kick! At realistic prices.

I honestly don't know if TourSwing has some long term agenda....you know, how Infiniti announced assembled prices only for 2008...but don't care what shaft....or Geek Golf who is offering assembled products with Aldila shafts.

If you think about it, TourSwing could do the same thing...with all product designed by them....Hell, theres not even a OEM that actually designs and manufactures their own heads and shafts.

Ok...so now that I thread jacked my OWN post with the shafts...let me make an additional offer...

Anyone who pre-books an X-plode or Renegade head, will be allowed to but an existing line or future line of a TOurSwing shaft...from us, at 20% off.



If you have any questions...please email us...call us or AOL/IM us at (kzgrory)

[Eracer]

I'll get in line for one of the new 12-deg. Renegade heads.

[Crossfire]

I have sent you a PM.

[RickinMA]

Originally Posted by indacup

PERFORMANCE and OTHER SIMILARITIES
Both have a 40mm deep bore, short hosel to maximize feel.
Both have a very solid "non tink" sound at impact.
Both use the same proprietary Ti face material that when compared to SP-700
demos (they had) resulted in a min 6 yards added carry.

I'm very interested, but how can a different face material add carry? isn't .83 COR, .83 COR? I just didn't expect added carry because of different materials - I can get my head around different launch angles or spin rates by moving weight around, but increasing carry?

Also, any info on off-center performance?

Say for example, I was sold on getting either the Wishon 919 or this Renegade for 2008. I've seen COR #s for the 919 on off-center hits and I've also seen the high vertical axis MOI numbers - any data on how the Renegade compares?

Looking forward to seeing some reviews and hitting this thing - I think it looks pretty good at address

[fredcouplesfan]

Are the faces on these drivers cupped?

[indacup]

Originally Posted by RickinMA

I'm very interested, but how can a different face material add carry? isn't .83 COR, .83 COR? I just didn't expect added carry because of different materials - I can get my head around different launch angles or spin rates by moving weight around, but increasing carry?

One of the things I LOVE about this place (Shot Talk) is that there are no manufacturers as sponsors who will distort facts in order to promote their and only their products. With dealers like Lyle and I who have no ties to any single company, we can offer up unbiased facts (as we see them).

So as far as your question goes. While the USGA has a COR guideline, I can guarantee that there is no production model head that comes anywhere near it....Okay, maybe that was too bold a statement...lets say HARDLY anyone comes close, with a production model.

Two reasons for this:

1) RISK.
Using budget titanium would mean they'd have to stretch it so thin, likelihood of cracking for higher speed players would happen to often.

A perfect example was the first run of TourSwing D3 heads.....they employed the thin titanium with a new foundry they experimented with that offered lower production costs.

Unfortunately, they had never worked with this exotic material or the tight specs that TS needed...so the first run ended up cracking with anyone over a 98 mph swing.

Same this occured with the Nike Sumos earlier this year.

2) EXPENSE.
Don't let the mfg's fool you into thinking that their cost for their $150 head is clost to half of MAP....the profit margin is HUGE...especially when they use an open mold design.

One of the most popular driver heads in the past ten years was promoted by the owner as "His design"..."His creation"...which involved years of engineering and rework to get it "just right"...yada, yada...when in reality it was one of about 500 different heads sitting around at the Maxwin, Int'l golf foundry in Taiwan.

Their cost is about 1/5th of the MSRP.

Most mfgs don't wanna open up their pocketbooks to make a good product, when they can BS and promote for free or pennies on the dollar at best.

Remember the original ERC that came out and announced they were breaking the rules and offering up an illegal head?

What happened?

They were cracking left and right to the point that instead of employing a better grade Ti for the face, they found it easier to slap a sticker on it saying intended for slower speeds only.

TourSwing has taken the approach of employing the higher grade/cost Ti material and hope for word of mouth to sell the product as opposed to spending tons of money promoting it.

Also, any info on off-center performance?

Say for example, I was sold on getting either the Wishon 919 or this Renegade for 2008. I've seen COR #s for the 919 on off-center hits and I've also seen the high vertical axis MOI numbers - any data on how the Renegade compares?

Looking forward to seeing some reviews and hitting this thing - I think it looks pretty good at address

I sent a copy of this question to the tech guys at TourSwing and see if they did direct comparison.

The problem (or maybe I should say difference) with the Wishon and other Hi MOI heads vs the Renegade and Xplode is they have such high backspin numbers....they don't get the yardage that the other heads get...

I normally hit a 10.10.5 loft head...with the Wishon I had to go to a 9* Wishon...and even then I had to fiddle around with the proper shaft set up to get the right trajectory.

I will keep you posted as I hear anything.

[indacup]

Originally Posted by fredcouplesfan

Are the faces on these drivers cupped?

Nope.

Cupped faces are actually thicker than standard face weld....it would be counter-productive to use the expensive Ti with cup face engineering.

[ualtim]

PM sent. I'm a ho, what can I say?

[Rockford35]

Originally Posted by indacup

Nope.

Cupped faces are actually thicker than standard face weld....it would be counter-productive to use the expensive Ti with cup face engineering.

Tour Edge uses the Ti Cup face.

Would you consider them the lying, faceless, promotional OEM, or closer to the grassroots component style companies that rely on engineering and development?

I'm not in the slightest trying to slag TS here, not at all. This is a genuine question.

R35

[Eracer]

Originally Posted by ualtim

PM sent. I'm a ho, what can I say?

I'm with you. PM sent as well. I'm putting my money on the 12-deg. Renegade.

[ManchesterGolfer]

Originally Posted by indacup

Remember the original ERC that came out and announced they were breaking the rules and offering up an illegal head?

What happened?

They were cracking left and right to the point that instead of employing a better grade Ti for the face, they found it easier to slap a sticker on it saying intended for slower speeds only.

I know a few people who are currently looking for new drivers as they have non conforming heads. One is using the original TM R7 Quad with Max on the face another is using a Cobra SZ440 Unlimitted. (The R7 user plays off 1 and swings well above 100mph) So your saying if they could actually have these heads tested they would probably come in under .83 COR?

Just thinking if that is the case I'm gonna see about buying a piece of equiptment to test 'illegal' drivers and resell them with there exact COR written on & with a Certificate to say they are legal!!! Would be able to pick them up for peanuts and make a good profit!!!

[ualtim]

The Renegade intreagues me. I like the low spin characteristics of the Geek DCT and launch of my DCT, but can not match the feel of the TEE and the accuracy of it when I am swinging good. If I can find a combination of the two and through in a higher MOI to boot, I will be very happy.

What shaft are you thinking about Eracer?

[Eracer]

Originally Posted by ualtim

The Renegade intreagues me. I like the low spin characteristics of the Geek DCT and launch of my DCT, but can not match the feel of the TEE and the accuracy of it when I am swinging good. If I can find a combination of the two and through in a higher MOI to boot, I will be very happy.

What shaft are you thinking about Eracer?

I've got three in mind. The Solutions that I currently have in my Mizuno MX500, the ProForce V2 that I pulled out of the MX500, and maybe one of the new Avenger shafts. I think I'll put the V2 in first. I really did like that shaft (very straight, and sneaky long), but felt it launched a bit low for me. I think that with 13-deg. Renegade it might be a great combo.

[indacup]

Originally Posted by Rockford35

Tour Edge uses the Ti Cup face.

Would you consider them the lying, faceless, promotional OEM, or closer to the grassroots component style companies that rely on engineering and development?

I'm not in the slightest trying to slag TS here, not at all. This is a genuine question.

R35

LOL..

I LOVE the exotics...and you're right, they employ cup face on their fairway woods and drivers.

But the big difference is the Fairway woods are STEEL faces and cup design is great for steel...steel bends easier and less brittle than Titanium.

Look at the Exotics drivers...no where NEAR as impressive as the fairway woods, are they?

Reason being? they have to make the faces thicker to bend without breaking.

Face thickness on the cup Ti faces is around .044-.050"...whereas you can get flat ti faces down to .030...and in the case of the TS products, much thinner than that.

When I get back to ouir other shop, I'll take pictures of cup thickness next to flat....it's enormous.

[Clugnut]

Is there any company who COR tests each head and stickers them with it? I would love a head that I knew was right near the legal limit. I've been very disappointed with the smash factor numbers I'm getting with my 425TP.