If you knew it was Illegal, would you hit it???

[Rockford35]

Originally Posted by indacup

Too bad, I like Geek and I like Steve,,,but this time, I think it's a bad business move.

Absolutely.

Out of respect for Steve as an individual, I haven't made a comment about this head to him. However, I really have to question where he's going trying to market something like this.

A black eye, if you can call it that, for Geek. No question.

R35

[indacup]

Originally Posted by Rockford35

Absolutely.

Out of respect for Steve as an individual, I haven't made a comment about this head to him. However, I really have to question where he's going trying to market something like this.

A black eye, if you can call it that, for Geek. No question.

R35

I agree, the decision makes no sense...especially coming from Steve who said a few years back that Geek will NEVER make a hybrid because it was a crutch and took players away from the basics of golf...but, isn't making a non-conforming driver doing the same?

[dave.]

gets Geek mentioned though

we wouldn't be talking about Geek otherwise

[Rockford35]

Originally Posted by dave.

gets Geek mentioned though

we wouldn't be talking about Geek otherwise

Geek had/has a solid following. I don't think this head needed to be introduced to increase it.

For me, personally, it takes away from Geek. I still support his product, but it makes me bite my lip about it. I doubt this was Steve's goal in all of this.

Frankly, where does it end/go from here?

R35

[indacup]

Originally Posted by dave.

gets Geek mentioned though

we wouldn't be talking about Geek otherwise

LOL.....Reminds me when I heard Steve was going to name his company GEEK GOLF, I remember thinking: "WTF"??? Thats a HORRIBLE name! Will never be taken seriously...

I mean this comes from a guy who introduced cool and manly sounding companies like "INTEGRA" and "BANG".

I was certain the decision was a horrible one made after a chemically induced bad night on the town.

But I was SO wrong!

It caught on immediately and the name is one of the most popular in the industry...eclipsing name recognition of component companys that have been around years before.

[Manavs]

Originally Posted by indacup

Below is a preview of the soon to be released driver from Geek.



Basically, a DCT with (supposedly) ultra hot face that is (again, supposedly) way hotter than USGA guidelines....but he will NOT be sending it to the USGA for review, knowing it will fail.

i remember a similar situation back in 98/99 with katana golf - they had a $800 driver that wasnt sent to the usga but it was hot. sooner or later the usga got one and deemed it non-conforming.

if the same holds true here, whether they send it in or not, sooner or later the legality of it will be judged and set appropriately.

i for one dont want to deal with customers that buy unknowingly or ignorantly just to find out months later that they spent $$$ on something they cant play in tournament play.

Originally Posted by indacup

SO, assuming it's hot, would you use it?

hell no!

Originally Posted by indacup

My opinion is, the same as it was when Callaway introduced the ERC...if it's not legal, I refuse to use it (on principals alone)....but apparently, my stance has caught a lot of heat ifrom some others...

Am I in the minority???

i dont believe so - the ERC was brilliantly marketed by Mr Callaway himself. I remember him getting on the golf channel with the ERC and saying we will not be selling this non-conforming driver in the usa sorry - . which he was a man of his word, he didnt. and created a huge demand for it by taking it away from the public.

Then, brilliantly, he turns around and builds the non conforming ERC II and sells that in the USA.. LOL i was laughing so hard over that one!!!!

[indacup]

Originally Posted by Manavs

i remember a similar situation back in 98/99 with katana golf - they had a $800 driver that wasnt sent to the usga but it was hot. sooner or later the usga got one and deemed it non-conforming.

if the same holds true here, whether they send it in or not, sooner or later the legality of it will be judged and set appropriately.

That cannot happen anymore. The USGA in a economic move will not test ANY club unless submitted and paid for by the manufacturer. The Mfg. has the option to not submit.

i dont believe so - the ERC was brilliantly marketed by Mr Callaway himself. I remember him getting on the golf channel with the ERC and saying we will not be selling this non-conforming driver in the usa sorry - . which he was a man of his word, he didnt. and created a huge demand for it by taking it away from the public.

Then, brilliantly, he turns around and builds the non conforming ERC II and sells that in the USA.. LOL i was laughing so hard over that one!!!!

You got that mixed up....

He DID promote the non conforming head...even challenged the USGA over it...they hired Arnold Palmer to be a spokesman to support the non-conforming ERC (in returned they paid off his debts he owed on Arnold Palmer golf co).

THEN, they released the LEGAL ERC to the public...the non conforming driver had a green and black sticker on the head announcing it was not legal for tournament play or handicapping.

[Manavs]

Originally Posted by indacup

Thanks for the input guys.

I will not carry this head.

Not only is it really unethical to make something that is illegal, but due to the extreme thinness of the face, there will be a minimal, if any warrantee...certainly not for face breakage...and that is going to open up a can of worms for the dealer...AND buyer.

I see no real value in this product.

Too bad, I like Geek and I like Steve,,,but this time, I think it's a bad business move.

Indacup,

I applaud you for taking a stance and deciding not to carry it - plus like you said the headaches in for the retailers are not worth it.

But i disagree with this part of your statement:

"Not only is it really unethical to make something that is illegal"

i have no problem with companies making a golf club that is non conforming - if the market forces have created that demand then companies should be able to profit from delivering a product for them.

I put the onus on the golfers for removing the demand by not purchasing the clubs, not the company for supplying the clubs. The companies will soon follow the supply and demand forces of the marketplace.

your in a difficult position being a liason between the companies and public - having to gauge these market forces in order to make a profit is not easy. hopefully your customers and potential customers can see the merit of doing business with a retailer like yourself that promotes playing the game by the rules and that you can capitalize on it from that angle.

with that said, I also have no problem hanging the scumbags who try to play in events with those clubs by their toe nails.

[RickinMA]

I don't know guys - I think there's a market for this type of head that is currently under-served.
Think about all the little old ladies out there that might benefit from a few more yards. I don't think there's much of a market for the 7.5* head or even a 9*, but for the purely recreational player (who you generally won't find on boards like this), why not.

I think a 15 or 16* option would be appropriate too. Are the Wishon .90's still selling like hotcakes on ebay? if so, why wouldn't geek want a piece of the non-conforming action. He's got a business to run, and if, due to economic pressures, people aren't buying the good ole DCT, why not offer something else to go after a different market demographic.

[Manavs]

Originally Posted by indacup

That cannot happen anymore. The USGA in a economic move will not test ANY club unless submitted and paid for by the manufacturer. The Mfg. has the option to not submit.

thats wild! what if a 3rd party submits it? or if the PGA tour gets a non conforming reading? hmmm????

Originally Posted by indacup

You got that mixed up....

He DID promote the non conforming head...even challenged the USGA over it...they hired Arnold Palmer to be a spokesman to support the non-conforming ERC (in returned they paid off his debts he owed on Arnold Palmer golf co).

THEN, they released the LEGAL ERC to the public...the non conforming driver had a green and black sticker on the head announcing it was not legal for tournament play or handicapping.

I may have that confused, but i could have sworn that Ely said he would never promote the "ERC" in the USA, and that the original ERC was never sold in the USA - (its not even on their website). The "ERC II" was sold in the USA and i remember everything just like you said - promoted as a non conforming head, arnie palmer, etc.

[FATC1TY]

I wouldn't use it, or sell it if I had a store.. But I'm with Rick.. If there's a market for it, I don't see why not.

So as long as it's sold to people who KNOW that it's non-conforming, along with packaging that shows that it's non-conforming, then I think the use of it in an event, or USGA sanctioned tournament, or even a friendly round with money on the line, would be wrong. Using it to cheat, to me is no different than marking your score wrong.. Or improving your lie..

[gwlee7]

Interestingly, every Geek head I have ever had I ended up ditching. Just not for me I guess. My experience if mentioned on another site I frequent would have gotten me crucified. This especially since I keep putting Wishons in my bag.

[Rockford35]

Originally Posted by gwlee7

Interestingly, every Geek head I have ever had I ended up ditching. Just not for me I guess. My experience if mentioned on another site I frequent would have gotten me crucified. This especially since I keep putting Wishons in my bag.

I liked the DCT. I did not like the Failsafe tho, way too much spin for me. I've built, owned and sold several DCT's, all of which I liked.

If you have a series of heads that work, and own the current long drive record at 551 yards with a conforming version, i don't really see a market here that you aren't already tapping into. I mean, it's not going to have a warranty worth bupkiss and it's going head to head against the breadwinners already.

I hope it sells, for Steve's sake. I wouldn't consider one if I could get it for free.

R35

[buykrux]

i was kind of hoping it was going to look something like this....


if you know it was illegal, would you hit it?

[Slingblade61]

I would bag it in a second!

Then I would run a tournament using all illegal gear.
I bet everyone would shoot the same scores.

Seriously, I take these conforming issues with a grain of salt. I well remember the ERC thing and Snake eyes had a spring effect face that was 'illegal' and withing maybe 8 months of their release the rules were changed to allow the technology.

If I bag this I'm so popping it 3 yards past you sainted duffers.