Driver Loft question...

[BigJim13]

So with all the talk of us amateurs needing higher lofts on our drivers I started wondering. Most of us here play fairly low lofted drivers, at least it seems anyway. I play a 9* driver with a low launching shaft. I don't seem to have any issues with getting the ball in the air. I guess my question is at what point do us "amateurs" go to a higher lofted driver? I mean according to Wishon and Golf Digest/Magazine we should all add loft, has anybody tried it? SHould i try a 10* driver, how much difference would i notice? Any thoughts???

[Sandpiper3]

I have no clue, but im really thinking about it. Im hopefully going to get custom fit for a driver/shaft over the winter. As nice as my driver is (as nice as theyve all been) ive never really seemed to be able to get a good carry distance outta the ball.... Maybe its just my swing, or if there is something I can do, ill find out.

Generally most players (probly 7 or 8 outta 10) should be playing a higher lofted driver.

[warbirdlover]

The important thing is your launch angle (determined by your club loft, shaft flex and kick point and swing angle) have to fall into an optimum launch angle of around 14-16* on a launch monitor. If it's in that angle you're going to get the maximum carry possible for you. I had to DROP both my club head launch angle (from 10.5* to 9*), shaft flex (reg. to stiff) and flex point (mid-low to mid) to get the angle "down" into that optimum range. So everyone will have a different "winning" combination unique for themselves. When we simulated my 10.5 club launch and low-kick (high launch) reg. flex shaft combo I used this summer I hit balloonball after balloonball. Once we found that optimum angle for me OH BABY!!!

[ezra76]

I highly recommend trying to find a "demo day" and getting a recommendation. I went to a Callaway fitting where they recommended an 11* driver with an X flex shaft. I just put together a 10.5* with an Xflex and not only am I hitting long but more accurately. I had to swallow my pride and admit I couldn't hit an 8.5* (well enough anyway). The 10.5 is now allowing me to go 95% swing speed with consistent shots.

[chrisgaddy]

I went to a demo day and the Nike rep had me hit several drivers. Finally he said I needed a 13 degree driver with stiff shaft. I've had it for about 9 months. Just recently I bought a 9.5 degree Titleist 905T with stiff shaft (2nd swing going out of business sale) and I hit it higher and am more accurate. I think it all boils down to the shaft.

[mont86]

[quote=chrisgaddy;83283]I went to a demo day and the Nike rep had me hit several drivers. Finally he said I needed a 13 degree driver with stiff shaft. quote]

Thats interesting, because I bought a 11* with a senior flex and did like it so I put a stiff in and was told that might be too much. I have only used it a dozen times since it was installed, but the last 2 rounds went well so I'm going to wait until next yr to decide....The indoor range is to tough to tell on ball flight its good for the first 75 yds then hits the back wall.

[Augster]

I just read "Search for the Perfect Driver"...

The loft on your driver should be reflective of your swing speed and angle of attack. If you have an upward angle of attack, you will be able to use a lower lofted driver to hit your optimum launch angle for your swing speed.

Wishon uses a great example in using a hose to launch the water as far out as possible. If you have high pressure going through it (120 mph ss for example) you won't hold the hose as high. You'll have it more flat to get the maximum distance of the water. If you throttle the water pressure back some (say 87 mph ss), you need to raise the hose up (launch angle) to get the water to go out as far as it can. Though you raise the angle, the less pressure hose still won't throw the water as far as the higher pressure hose (held on the optimum angle), but it will go farther than if you took your 87 mph hose and used the same hose angle as the 120mph hose (much flatter).

The problem Wishon et. al. have with golfers, and why they are always thumping for more loft on drivers, is that your average male golfer only swings the driver at 87 mph or so. So they need more loft to GENERATE spin to get the ball UP. The AVERAGE driver loft for the playing pros at the AT&T Pro am this year was 9.2*. The average driver loft for their playing partners was 9.4*. These guys can NOT "play what the pros play" because they don't swing like the pros. The average tour pro has a driver swing of about 110MPH.

At 110 MPH, here are the carry distances for various drivers (assuming 0* angle of attack, i.e. flat into the ball)

9* 258
11* 258
13* 254
15* 249
17* 243

Because of the clubhead speed, once you start adding loft the player is increasing spin, the ball balloons more and comes up shorter. It increases spin because of the higher loft if that weren't already obvious. Your PW puts a LOT of spin on the ball at about 48*. But I digress.

So how does your 90 MPH swinger (avg Male 87mph) distances change for the same lofts? Here they are:

9* 205
11* 211
13* 213
15* 213
17* 211

Your average male golfer (assuming 0* angle of attack) is going to pick up 8 yards of carry by changing from a 9* to a 13* driver. It doesn't sound like much, but after the roll, you will be hitting at LEAST 1 club less into the greens. PLUS, if you shorten the shaft from the 45" "stock" length to a shaft length more for you, you will hit the sweet spot much more often, thus getting the extra yardage much more often.

That is for your average guy. How about a little below average. A little older guy who averages about 80 mph with the driver:

9* 170
11* 179
13* 184
15* 186
17* 187

This swinger switching from an off the rack 9* that the pros hit to a 15* driver is going to pick up 16 yards of carry. He'll now be hitting 2 CLUBS less into greens than he used to.

Here are the numbers for 100 and 120 to be thorough:

100 MPH (assuming 0* angle of attack)

9* 234
11* 237
13* 236
15* 234
17* 230

120 MPH

9* 277
11* 274
13* 268
15* 261
17* 253

Now, you would actually go for LESS LOFT if you could increase your angle of attack. That is, if you hit the ball on the upswing past the bottom of your swing arc.

So if you had a 100 MPH swing which the chart says you'd need an 11* driver to maximize your carry, and a 2* upward angle of attack, you would only need the 9* driver to maximize your carry distance.

This is how the long drive SOB's do it. This is also what is starting to be done on the PGA Tour. A TOTALLY different swing for the driver. The long driver competitors average somewhere between 135-155 MPH swing speed. They play the ball well forward and swing up into it. Thusly they only need a 6*, 7* or 8* face. They still get a launch angle of 12-13*, so with a 7* driver they need to add at LEAST a 5* upward angle of attack.

So really BigJim, it depends on your swing speed. Then it depends on your angle of attack. If, GOD FORBID, you have a NEGATIVE angle of attack, i.e. you swing your driver the SAME as your irons which delofts the clubface (if the irons are swung correctly), then you need MUCH MORE loft on your driver to get the same carry because you have to overcome the delofted face. Same 100 mph guy from above with a 2* NEGATIVE angle of attack needs a 13* driver to get his ball launched the same as an 11* driver with a 0* angle of attack.

So swing speed, then angle of attack. Lastly, WHERE you hit it on the face matters also. Many golfers have heard that the "sweet spot" on the oversized 460* drivers is actually ABOVE the center of the club face. They say aim for that. Tee it up.

This is falacy. The sweet spot will always be in the center of the clubface, that's they way they are designed. The center of percussion (CP) (sweet spot) of the clubhead is supposed to go straight through the ball to maximize contact/distance. It is about the size of a thumbtack. Once the ball is outside this sweet spot the clubhead starts to twist. Where this "higher on the face sweet spot" BS comes from is the fact that these bigger drivers have ROLL on the face. They are not flat. Say you have a 10* driver. That is the degree in the middle of the clubface on the sweet spot. Because of the roll on the face, a half-inch above the sweet spot could be 12* or 13*, which more closely resembles the loft of the driver most males should be playing. So the ball comes off on the correct launch angle, albeit with more spin than optimal because you brought the CG in under the ball so you still won't get the maximum carry that you would had you connected on that launch angle in line with the sweet spot.

God help you if you hit it LOW on the face below the sweet spot. Because of the roll on the face that 10* driver is now 8* (or worse) and you are contacting it below the CP. Just yuck.

This is why Wishon has pioneered what he calls Graduated Roll Technology (GRT). He designs his drivers, FW's etc. with GRT to give the club a "flat face" appearance. SO if your 10* driver gives you the optimum launch angle, then when you hit it low or high on the face, the ball is still coming off the face on that angle. The spin will be different on the shots because they are above or below the CP and not on the sweet spot, but they will still launch almost on the correct angle. Just one less thing to worry about.

Sadly, I'll be hoing one pretty soon. How many drivers does a guy need?

This is way too long.

I hope that helps a bit. I suggest anyone serious about getting "fit" should read Wishons "Search" books. Anymore questions, I am glad to help.

[warbirdlover]

The driver loft (swing speed) is only part of the equation. Read the shaft chapter because it starts to build the "big picture"...

[HighTopFade]

For sure a higher loft is more forgiving. Too much side spin on lower lofts with bad shots.

[LyleG]

Lower lofts will have higher ball speeds. Read the Wishon book, like warbirdlover said, it paints the big picture. I read it all in one sitting when I got it, and have read it 4 times since.

[ezra76]

Interesting info Augster. Dead on. At the Callaway fitting the monitor was registering 262.5 yds. of carry with an 11* FT-3 and an NV-75X. That was with a swng speed registering at 113mph. Now that I've got the R7 10.5 set up with the X I would love to get on a monitor. The guy said my ball speed was around 160 and I could easily get it up to 170 with a little work. I think I may have got it there as well as gained a few mph. with the 65g shaft and a more sound and confident swing. It's all about finding out what works best for you.

[BigJim13]

All good info, especially from Augster. I for sure will be getting fit on a monitor before i buy another driver. The question was more to generate conversation than for help picking a shaft/loft combo. I dont know my ss, i would say that honestly carry about 250 with my driver and I am sure i could get more from a different combo. I just find it interesting that all these mags and books are pushing more loft but from looking at the sigs for alot of people they dont have that much loft. Like I said, I play a 9* driver with a Graf blue, on days when my swing is off its painful to watch. I guess what I really need to do is read WIshons book, sounds like a good read...

[SiberianDVM]

And just because it says 9.5* on the bottom, that dosn't mean that it really is 9.5*.

My 983K 9.5* actually measured 11*

I haven't had my 905T 9.5* checked, but it hits just as high as my 983K.

[BigJim13]

Originally Posted by SiberianDVM

And just because it says 9.5* on the bottom, that dosn't mean that it really is 9.5*.

My 983K 9.5* actually measured 11*

I haven't had my 905T 9.5* checked, but it hits just as high as my 983K.

That's true too, it could be anywhere from 8-11*. As long as its within their tolerance levels...or something like that.

[warbirdlover]

Lower lofts will have higher ball speeds. Read the Wishon book, like warbirdlover said, it paints the big picture. I read it all in one sitting when I got it, and have read it 4 times since.

LyleG

And I thought I was the only one that had done this. I might be on my 6th read!
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