OK, I've finally had enough of my driver...

[Sandy]

Ok, so I've been around here for a few months, have learned a ton from guys about all sorts of things, but have finally come up against an issue that I really think your opinions and ideas will help me immensely on. I'm not sure whether its a 'Hacker's Anonymous' or 'Equipment Talk' issue (as you'll see as you read on) so please feel free to move it to the most appropriate place...

Right, so I've got to a point now where I'm quite happy with my game, and see the need for a few lessons to break the next level, but can happily go out and play, shoot in the mid-90s pretty consistently, and generally can see where I lose shots, even if I can't always see how to fix those issues! I'm pretty much happy with everything in my bag now EXCEPT my driver!

As you'll see from below, its a TM R5 Dual with draw bias. I put the Prolaunch Red in regular flex in a few months back to try and lower the flight, which seemed extraordinarily high for me compared to everyone else I played with, and I was convinced was robbing me of distance. It lowered it a little and felt better than the stock shaft, but for a low-launch shaft it *still* goes higher than most people I play with.

But what is really bad is that now I seemed to have pretty much fixed my slice with all my clubs, my driver has turned into a horrendous hook machine. About 30% of my drives now fly out to about 150yds, pulling slightly, then turn 90* and fly 40 or 50 yards out to the left. So now my shots with the driver are 70% big high arcs that go out to about 215 to 230yds, or these horrendous hooks that absolutely kill my round.

Today down the range I dusted the face of the driver to look at where the contact was. What surprised me was that I really work hard on playing the ball well forward in my stance (I had a real problem with that) but still most of the hits were only halfway up the face and below the 'sweet spot'. What surprised me most was that the big hooks either came off the toe, or just inside the centre towards the heel. The heel I was expecting, but off the toe?

Anyway, my problem is two-fold. Firstly, does this ring any bells with you gurus and sages out there as to a big technical problem, giving me these two issues? And secondly is it an equipment problem? I seem to have no problems getting the ball airborne with any of my clubs, so I probably have a naturally high ball-flight, but should I go lower or much lower loft, stiffer shaft, etc? For reference I hit my 6 iron about 150 on average, can hit my 19* hybrid out to 200, and the driver as described above?

As an aside, I quite like the look of the Launchers now on sale in the bigger shops, or the HiBore's that are likely to go down in price soon. Wouldn't rule out any kind of club and shaft combo though. Anyone had the same problem and found a good combo? And should I be nervous of going to get fitted for a driver if I'm not that good a player?

Thanks in anticipation of your help guys - I know this is a long and complex one, but I figured you guys would know better than anyone!

[demon]

try a stiffer shaft, this will lower ball flight and reduce some draw/hook.

[Rockford35]

A ball off the toe with an inside out swing will produce a huge hook. Textbook.

A ball off the heel is a pull.

I'm gonna go out here and call a spade a spade - it's not the club. You just need to bring the face through a little more squarely.

The HiBore isn't going to help you with a pull or a hook. In fact, it might accentuate it.

My suggestion is to get a lesson. Have another set of eyes help you with the long game. They'll be able to check your grip (too strong?), your backswing and your follow thru and nail down some issues.

That may see like weak advice from a publically acclaimed club ho, but it's still the best advice. It's not the club's fault, it's the guy on the end of it.

What you could do to fuel the fire of my suggestion is to go hit a few other drivers. Take them out to the range and give them a go. Most places will do that if you leave your driver's license or a CC # as collateral. Get out there and hit them.

My advice on that is try a mid kick shaft (like the Graf blue or the Aldila NVS) and get a driver with 8.5 or 9.5* loft. While alot of guys struggle to get the ball airborne, there are a few (like me) that don't suffer that at all and hit the ball a mile high. You're probably in that category. Don't change your swing just yet, just go out and try a few lower lofted drivers.

I personally find an 8* driver easier to control than a 10.5*, only because I can put a better trajectory on it instead of a balloon that can get lost in the wind or I have no idea how far it might go from swing to swing.

Food for thought.

Keep in mind that I'm an idiot tho.

R35

[Sandy]

Thanks already, guys.

Seems I probably have two issues going on here, one that needs an equipment fix (the high ball flight) and another than needs a technical fix (the hooking).

Rock - what you say makes perfect sense. I'm a 'well upholstered' guy, and found that strengthening my grip somewhat made a world of difference to my swing and contact (enough to drop my rounds by 10 - 15 shots in the space of a month) so that may be the root of all this. That said I *do* weaken my grip considerably for the driver, as it hit nothing other than hooks with the grip I use for my hybrids or woods.

This is exactly what I was hoping for, so thanks so much!

[ezra76]

Get a 3wood in the bag. What do you hit off trouble holes? I couldn't make it with out a 3W to hit a good 3 or 4 times a round.

[Sandy]

Originally Posted by ezra76

What do you hit off trouble holes?

Usually the 22* hybrid, although I've now added a 19* too. My swing seems to suit them perfectly compared to the longer wood shafts which give me these problems, and the difference in distance between woods and hybrids is totally overwhelmed by the difference in consistency I get between them.

I'm starting think this is probably a stature issue too, being 6ft tall and pretty well built, so the more upright swing with the hybrids and irons is a lot easier for me to get right...

[warbirdlover]

Well, I'm not arguing with R35 but it could still be driver related so I would go to a place with a launch monitor and try some lower lofts and stiff shaft. I took a few lessons this summer but I still ballooned the driver (with a tail end slice) if I tried to put a little too much on the swing. I tend to do that naturally (swing harder) so I had to force myself to swing like a wimp. Well, on the launch monitor we duplicated that balloon ball! By going from a 10.5º to 9º driver and stiff NVS shaft I can now swing at the ball and no more balloonballs. I'm hitting longer then I ever have, straight down the middle. I would have a pro check your swing basics and also play with some clubs on the launch monitor. Concentrating on only one or the other might not fix your problem.

Oh yeah... I was also playing the ball too far forward!!

[Stanters]

"And should I be nervous of going to get fitted for a driver if I'm not that good a player?"

No and btw - you are a good player in the grand scheme of things. Shooting in the 90's is what most golfers dream of.

I'd take a lesson though before jumping for a new club. At least demo a few before you do anything and compare the results to your current Driver.

If you hit it low on the clubface you maybe coming in too steep perhaps? Address the ball an inch or so behind the ball - this will help you to hit it on the way up. (Bit of guesswork but a possibility)

[FKA19]

Originally Posted by Rockford35

A ball off the toe with an inside out swing will produce a huge hook. Textbook.

A ball off the heel is a pull.

I'm gonna go out here and call a spade a spade - it's not the club. You just need to bring the face through a little more squarely.

The HiBore isn't going to help you with a pull or a hook. In fact, it might accentuate it.

My suggestion is to get a lesson. Have another set of eyes help you with the long game. They'll be able to check your grip (too strong?), your backswing and your follow thru and nail down some issues.

That may see like weak advice from a publically acclaimed club ho, but it's still the best advice. It's not the club's fault, it's the guy on the end of it.

What you could do to fuel the fire of my suggestion is to go hit a few other drivers. Take them out to the range and give them a go. Most places will do that if you leave your driver's license or a CC # as collateral. Get out there and hit them.

My advice on that is try a mid kick shaft (like the Graf blue or the Aldila NVS) and get a driver with 8.5 or 9.5* loft. While alot of guys struggle to get the ball airborne, there are a few (like me) that don't suffer that at all and hit the ball a mile high. You're probably in that category. Don't change your swing just yet, just go out and try a few lower lofted drivers.

I personally find an 8* driver easier to control than a 10.5*, only because I can put a better trajectory on it instead of a balloon that can get lost in the wind or I have no idea how far it might go from swing to swing.

Food for thought.

Keep in mind that I'm an idiot tho.

R35

could be slightly club related seeing as it is draw biased , however it would still be more swing-related than anything.

[Sandy]

How does this sound for a plan then:

1) Finally get a lesson or two to get the technical aspect sorted out
2) Work on what I learn for a few weeks to get someway towards working it out (I *love* going down to the range no matter what the weather!)
3) Work on things until all the new super-drivers are out, pushing down the prices of what's around at the moment, then go and get a fitting to see what can be done to the ball flight

How does that sound?

And if the weather gets to a level where I can go out and sneak a round or two in, drop the driver and start with the 19* hybrid - there's nothing at the only course here that'll be open that I can't lay up to quite nicely with that club anyway.

[Rockford35]

Originally Posted by 19handicap

could be slightly club related seeing as it is draw biased , however it would still be more swing-related than anything.

(Sandy, none of the following is personal, I'm just pointing out the obvious....)

Seeing that he "fixed his slice with all the rest" of his clubs lead me to believe that he strengthened his grip. The draw bias of his driver only accentuates his "band aid" fix.

A lesson should help him weaken his grip, and learn more about his timing, posture and turn rather that faking his way to a good swing.

The fact that his driver is a "Draw" shouldn't make him hit huge pulls and duck hooks. It's not THAT draw biased (which I also think is horseshit).

R35

[Sandy]

Originally Posted by Rockford35

(Sandy, none of the following is personal, I'm just pointing out the obvious....)

Hey - no worries! I posted my problem here because I knew I'd get good honest advice from people way more qualified or experienced than the few golfers I've met and got to know since I moved here.

You're dead right about the stronger grip - I saw a tip that a stronger grip helped both slicers and bigger guys, so I tried it and genuinely dropped my rounds by 10 to 15 shots within a week or so. Now I can hit with a weaker grip and not slice, but lost on average 10 to 15 yards per club in distance, especially with the 3400s I bought.

As I said above, I hit my driver with a much weaker grip, and the swing *does* feel very different and a lot less from the inside than with my irons and hybrids. But when I try to hit my driver with the stronger grip it just hit hook after hook after hook.

Seems like its definitely time to bite the bullet and search a pro out!

[Rockford35]

Originally Posted by Sandy

Hey - no worries! I posted my problem here because I knew I'd get good honest advice from people way more qualified or experienced than the few golfers I've met and got to know since I moved here.

Qualified? I checked the wall, no teaching certificate here. LOL.

Experienced, maybe. I used to have a really strong grip until a pro showed me that timing and balance was better than compensating. You're pro should help you with that straight away.

Get ready for buckets of one handed 7 irons....ugh....

R35

[ThatCanadianGuy]

Sandy bo bandy,

I to play a r5 type D, and have had the same problem you are haveing.

my pro and I walked down to the first tee with a few balls and my r5 and he had me hit ..1..ball. after this one ball he knew all the stupid things I was doing.

They following is what he had me do for the next 3 minutes:

-Move the ball Back in my stance
-stand a little furnther from the ball
- slow my tempo down(I was very quick form the top)
- lighten my grip pressure
-relax my forearms
-follow through down the target line.

8-10 balls later I was hittin them 260 down the pipe with a slight cut.

I still struggle with it from time to time but all I have to do is remember what he told me and I can fix myself in a matter of minutes.

I was going to seel the r5 in the spring and replace it with a new Wilson Staff but im hitting the driver so well i might keep it a little longer.

Good luck

[Sandy]

Originally Posted by ThatCanadianGuy

Sandy bo bandy,

With *that* username, I'd be soooooo disappointed if you didn't 'get' the avatar!