What do you think of the "No women members allowed" at Augusta

[Manavs]

i have no problem with a club - any club - having rules on membership. its no different than the black panthers, girl scouts, grand poobahs whatever group you want.

what my issue is when people make issue at augusta about women playing there when there are more rounds played per year there BY WOMEN than there are MEN! (wives and their guests are the predominate group of play each year)

[Pa Jayhawk]

Have no problem with a clubs that have rules such as this, as long as they are upfront with it so I know that it is a place I would give no thought to joining. Had a club in our old area that we were thinking of joining, and was thankful that the guy we knew from there told us that women were not allowed on the course prior to 10am. He used it as a selling point and didn't understand when we told him it was the reason we would not join. Saved us a bunch of money and aggravation by advertising such. Basically advertising they are a bunch of old biddies that I wouldn't want to be around. I played with the guy and a couple others from there and my wife as around a 20 handicap plays twice as fast as these proclaimed single digit handicaps and would likely beat them straight up. Me and a friend of mine kept trying to get the guy in a money match after playing with him for the first time. Kept hearing about his 3 handicap and spent the entire round looking for his ball on a course where it was hard to lose balls. While he wouldn't take the bet, it did quite him down in talking about his index.

To me this is a positive thing that a club advertises they are a bunch of sexist biddies, saves me the trouble of having to find out on my own. I remember when they had the Olympics in Atlanta and talking of having golf as a sport. There was an uproar of how Augusta had no problem with the men playing there and wanted the notoriety, but did not extend the same warm welcome to the ladies.

[Wayneo]

Originally Posted by eclark53520

This is pretty much where i stand.

If i owned a golf course, and i just wanted hot blonde women between the height of 5'4" and 5"6" between the weights of 110 and 120 with a bra size at least a D and wearing only thong bikini's...well...its my course, i own it and i can make all the rules on it i wish...

Although i too strongly dislike anyone with a 'holyer than thou' attitude, its their club, their land, and their rules. And thats the way personally owned land should be.

I agree with this post completely. I'll never be invited to become a member. From what I've heard, even Donald Trump was denied membership.

[Wayneo]

eclark - please put my name on the waiting list for membership at your club.

[eclark53520]

Originally Posted by Pa Jayhawk

To me this is a positive thing that a club advertises they are a bunch of sexist biddies, saves me the trouble of having to find out on my own. I remember when they had the Olympics in Atlanta and talking of having golf as a sport. There was an uproar of how Augusta had no problem with the men playing there and wanted the notoriety, but did not extend the same warm welcome to the ladies.

How does not allowing women to join as a member make them sexist?

Originally Posted by wikipedia

Sexism is the belief or attitude that one gender or sex is inferior to or less valuable than the other and can also refer to a hatred or distrust towards either sex as a whole (see also misogyny and misandry), or creating stereotypes of masculinity for men or femininity for women.

Not allowing them to join is not disprespect, nor hatred.

My buddies and i dont let any women up at deer camp....its the guys weekend, no women allowed...does that make me sexist? No....i have the utmost respect for women, i just dont want them at deer camp. Just like they dont want me there while they are getting their nails done, or join there bathroom party, or help them put their makeup on etc....

[MyBluC4]

While I might not personally agree with Augusta's policies, the term "private club" kind of says it all. Augusta's membership knew the deal going in, and new members continue accept the deal going in. It's their ball & bat (and field for that matter), so they have the privlege to make the rules. I don't know why any women would want to be a member there anyway. BTW, there are other such clubs throughout the country as well.
I look forward to the day a collection of gazillionaire women buy a top notch course, develop an ultra-exclusive womens only country club and get a PGA event to host. What a hoot that's gonna be.

[Pa Jayhawk]

Originally Posted by eclark53520

How does not allowing women to join as a member make them sexist?



Not allowing them to join is not disprespect, nor hatred.

My buddies and i dont let any women up at deer camp....its the guys weekend, no women allowed...does that make me sexist? No....i have the utmost respect for women, i just dont want them at deer camp. Just like they dont want me there while they are getting their nails done, or join there bathroom party, or help them put their makeup on etc....

Guess it is all a matter of your interpretation, in the same way that when were in Kansas back in the early 80's and Tom Watson left his current club in KC for which he had been a life long member, because they would not allow prominent black members to join and had separate criteria. Personally I would consider that racist, but that is just based on my interpretation. I guess if you would interpret it to not be in regards to "that one gender or sex is inferior to or less valuable than the other" then I could see how you would not consider it sexist. Although I have a hard time believing that is not the case.

Just like if any other time of the year you were to say that women aren't allowed at that deer camp when you have not already organized an event, I would find that sexist. IMHO, I believe there is a difference in doing so for an event, and making it the case all the time.

[eclark53520]

Originally Posted by Pa Jayhawk

Guess it is all a matter of your interpretation, in the same way that when were in Kansas back in the early 80's and Tom Watson left his current club in KC for which he had been a life long member, because they would not allow prominent black members to join and had separate criteria. Personally I would consider that racist, but that is just based on my interpretation. I guess if you would interpret it to not be in regards to "that one gender or sex is inferior to or less valuable than the other" then I could see how you would not consider it sexist. Although I have a hard time believing that is not the case.

Just like if any other time of the year you were to say that women aren't allowed at that deer camp when you have not already organized an event, I would find that sexist. IMHO, I believe there is a difference in doing so for an event, and making it the case all the time.

I agree, the '...inferior or less valuable than...' does leave some room for interpretation, and can see how one could interpret not beign allowed to join as deeming that sex one or both of those terms.

I guess for me being deemed inferior or less valuable needs to be in a tangible sense. Paying a women less for doing the same job as a man, or vise versa, is deeming that gender inferior or less valuable than. Charging one gender more to join than the other i find to be sexist. However, i find that being a member of a club is an in-tangible benefit. Therefore, not allowing one to behold it does not infer inferiority nor less value.

JMO of course.

[Golfgal]

Hi everyone.
Thanks so much for all your passionate commentary about this hot topic. My article was published today and used content from 4 forums (obviously this one). I hope you enjoy it. I enjoyed researching it for sure!
Cheers
Gayle

[mddubya]

Great article, glad we could help.

[Golfgal]

Originally Posted by mddubya

Great article, glad we could help.

Thanks! That's nice of you to say.

Some readers weren't so appreciative of my 72 year old comment.

I'm going to be reaching again soon on another "opinion" article, so I look forward to hearing your thoughts on that...Stay tuned.

[Wi-Golfer]

I thought it was well written & contained facts as well as opinions.

[ejdahl21]

Great article, Gayle. Nice to see someone still does the research first. Thank you for letting us be a part of it.

[Manavs]

Originally Posted by Golfgal

Hi everyone.
Thanks so much for all your passionate commentary about this hot topic. My article was published today and used content from 4 forums (obviously this one). I hope you enjoy it. I enjoyed researching it for sure!
Cheers
Gayle

With due respect, and here i mean that in the Voltaire sense where i would fight for you to have your opinion and share it, i also concurrently have the right to express my view of your written work in rebuttal.

with that said, i see no point to your reason to write this article, or what purpose it serves. you write:

"Not a year goes by where the topic of Augusta National not having any women members doesn’t rear its ugly head. This year is no different."

Who reared its ugly head???? I havent heard that on any media story this year. I did a google search and found not one story about Augusta National and Women as the search. Augusta national women - Google News

and even this more specific search yielded pathetic results PINK magazine masters - Google News

But conversely the same search showed story upon story about the contenders this year.

YOU brought this story back and attempted to speak it as a generality that all the masses are talking about this. and when one talks in generalities such as this i point the finger at the "firestarter" in this case you.

thats poor journalism. An opinionated letter is fine, but what you did was misleading making it come off as a broad rampid story everyone is talking about when in fact theyre not

of all relevant topics in regards to the players of this years 2009 Masters INVITATIONAL tournament instead you decide to write about this social agenda - again you are privy to discuss whatever you like, and as i do, which bears the question, of all the things why this? agree or disagree, the martha burke thing is done and over, she had her time in the press, and the media has moved on. i dont see this as the storyline ANYONE is talking about this year nor do i see it as a minor story. as 74% of your survey agreeds! Augusta has been bashed on and it didnt hurt the club one bit mainly due to the fact they dont care.

a novel idea would be for all of the women who want to join Augusta do something PROACTIVE (instead of act the victim) like what the members of many clubs such as Atlantic GC did some years ago. A few Jewish members wanted to join Shinnicock - (site of a few National championships open to the public, not some invitational tournament like the Masters). Shinnicock wouldnt accept them, so the group decided to build their own course down the street - which they have and its a beautiful track. And guess what, they dont allow Shinnicock members from joining!

But in reality i understand why the women who want to join Augusta dont. Because there aren't any! which makes this a dead issue. I know for a fact WAAAAAAAAAAAAAAy before martha burke was on the radar that Augusta wanted on their own volition to select a female member - (a member of a select club told me Nancy Lopez was the name amongst others) The problem was there was no one in their league that they thought would be an appropriate canidate. SO BE IT!

The members at Augusta dont have to make friends with people they dont want to and yet have gone out of their way to provide entertainment to the masses for 70+ years never mind the charitable donations. Now surely that would make for a better topic instead of bashing an organization that decides to live by the rights afforded to us by this interesting little relevant document

and while your at it, you should probably note 1-E in your own bill of rights north of the border Canadian Bill of Rights

well thats My $.02

[Victory]

saw plenty there today** nice hats on a few... KIDDING!!!! really - your knocking on the old southern gaurds door.. is it right no- but do i like it - yes.. hard to explain here.. typed words always get taken wrong. post a link to the article when finished.