What makes a golf course "women-friendly"?

[Golfgal]

Hi everyone.

Looking for your opinions again...

I am heading to Arizona to review 4 golf courses in about a week (haven't chosen them all yet - have a list of 10 from which to choose). The reviews are for a women's golf magazine: "Fore Her Magazine". So one of the criteria I want to use to rate the courses is "how women friendly it is".

Now that's a big question. For me, there are about 6-18 things I look for in a golf course, but I'd love to hear from both the ladies and men on this forum on what you think makes a course women friendly.

To get it started, here's one of mine.

Position of the forward tees.

Now I realize forward tees are about skill level and not about gender, but 95% of the women I know play from them and 0% of the guys do (except our son when he was 12), so let's just forget the political correctness for a minute and call them "the ladies tees" for now.

In my opinion (and I could be wrong, heaven forbid ), but I believe the ladies tees should be placed so that when she tees off, her ball should land roughly in the same area where the guys' balls are on the fairway. There is nothing worse than being last off the tee and first off the fairway on the 2nd shot. The courses I've played that received the GFW award had tee positions that seemed "fair" to me - ie. met the criteria I just mentioned. Those courses were fun to play because after the tee shot, it was a level playing field with the guys.

Anyway,that's one of mine. What criteria would you use to rate a course women friendly?

Thanks
Gayle

[mddubya]

Hi Gayle, interesting question you've asked. Being married and attempting to get SWMBO interested in golf I have a few of thoughts on this topic.

I agree on the position of the forward tees. My home course has them so far forward that if a woman, or whomever uses them, makes even decent contact they are the farthest down the fairway. I personally think they should take into account how far most women or beginners hit the ball, and place them so that their ball will land roughly where someone using the white/men's tees.

Food and beverage selections. Most men don't watch their calories, and want a beer with their food at the turn. But most women are watching calories. Greasy burgers and fries are fine, personally I love them, but perhaps offer grilled chicken sandwiches and salads.

Bathrooms, men can quickly duck into the woods or behind a pump house, but my wife will make me run her back to the proshop if there aren't clean restrooms on the course every few holes.

[SiberianDVM]

Clean, nice restrooms on the course, as mddubya said.

No bad language coming from all directions.

Spaced out tee times and no crowd waiting to go off the tee. Nothing makes my GF more anxious than a bunch of people watching her tee off.

No water to hit over.

[eclark53520]

Originally Posted by SiberianDVM

No water to hit over.

lmao...not nice..

Its hard for me to say what would make a great golf course for women....i am not a woman. I know thats tough for some of you guys to handle but its the truth.

I bet having designated 'bathroom parties' meaning girls that are there just to make sure all girls that go to the bathroom have their own group to go with, because apparently there are men in every womens bathroom just waiting for a loner..but if two 110lb girls go in there...thats a bit too much for those guys to handle...

But seriously...most of my ideas have already been said....

[SplooGe]

The woman's tees should leave the women the same iron into the green as the men. The same distance still leaves most women at a disadvantage. Its the same reason I play the back tees when I play with the coworkers, I'm not all that talented at the game but I play driver wedge from the white when they are playing driver 5i.

The cleanliness and availability of restrooms is also big with every woman I've ever played with as well as the attitude of the course attendants.

[MCDavis]

Male strippers?

Seriously, my wife and I play a lot together. Other than what's already been said, I'd say one thing she always notices is whether the pro shop actually carries ladies equipment/clothes. She's not a huge clothes shopper (we might spend 5-10 minutes in any given pro shop), but she gets irritated when we go to a course and there's nothing but men's clothes and equipment to look at.

Otherwise, the same things that make a course friendly to men: wide fairways, reasonable greens (not US Open caliber), no blind tee shots, and a good mix of easy/tough holes to make the course fun to play.

[SilverUberXeno]

Proximity to nearest shopping mall?

Restrooms near every teebox-

and on every other fairway?

An optional GPS in carts that can simulcast an array of Lifetime movies?

(That last one was most for Jeff's benefit.)

[eclark53520]

Originally Posted by SilverUberXeno

An optional GPS in carts that can simulcast an array of Lifetime movies?

(That last one was most for Jeff's benefit.)

Honestly, if i had access to a missile, i would go to Federal F me in the A$$ prison to take out their satalite, or their headquarters....but mainly their satalite as i dont really want to hurt anyone...i just want that channel to go away.

I absolutely HATE that channel...i almost shot my TV once because of it...lol jk, but seriously...

[Riverologist]

Women would love a clubhouse restaurant can make 1/2 orders, split the bill to the penny (cause god forbid they spend a cent more of their husband's money than they need too) and are perfectly fine with a tipping under 15%, preferably under 10%.

[Pa Jayhawk]

Originally Posted by Golfgal

In my opinion (and I could be wrong, heaven forbid ), but I believe the ladies tees should be placed so that when she tees off, her ball should land roughly in the same area where the guys' balls are on the fairway. There is nothing worse than being last off the tee and first off the fairway on the 2nd shot. The courses I've played that received the GFW award had tee positions that seemed "fair" to me - ie. met the criteria I just mentioned. Those courses were fun to play because after the tee shot, it was a level playing field with the guys.

Anyway,that's one of mine. What criteria would you use to rate a course women friendly?

Thanks
Gayle

Originally Posted by SplooGe

The woman's tees should leave the women the same iron into the green as the men. The same distance still leaves most women at a disadvantage. Its the same reason I play the back tees when I play with the coworkers, I'm not all that talented at the game but I play driver wedge from the white when they are playing driver 5i.

The cleanliness and availability of restrooms is also big with every woman I've ever played with as well as the attitude of the course attendants.

I more agree with SplooGe scenario and one that I usually find my wife likes in a course. Where the average women golfer would be hitting the same club into the green as the average male golfer.

Although I think there is a further problem with this that goes to course design. I don't think many course designers are going to give this thought when designing a course. So I think the problem with this is going to possibly give a women an advantage in many of the courses I see. I say this because usually most designers give a risk reward scenario in their design and use of forced carries. So if they have a forced carry of just say 240 yard for the men, and then have a big landing area afterwards and find yourself hitting say a PW into the green, in order to give the ladies a PW into the green I do not feel that forced carry would still exist or with little risk. I order to require the same design for the ladies, you would actually be putting another hazard over the mens forced carry and would provide little incentive to go for it in knowing they still risk hazard if they clear. Again giving a disadvantage to the men.

So this is kind of a double edged sword in the sense that in order to accommodate course management and design you are forced to play to one group of golfers and make it the same landing area for all golfers, which in turn will play in favor to the longer hitters whether it they be male or female. The course that can accommodate the equal distance to the green and rely on narrow landing areas many times will not simply because of the cost associated with adding bunkers and such.

So I guess really it is going to come down to catering to the masses that pay the majority of the bills. It would seem the Par 3's are the only that could do it accordingly.

[SiberianDVM]

Originally Posted by Pa Jayhawk

I It would seem the Par 3's are the only that
could do it accordingly.

So maybe more executive courses?

There are NONE in Augusta. The closest thing to it would be our First Tee course, where I see a lot of women playing.

I tried playing there once after work and they were so darn rude to me that I left. Maybe because I'm male?

[MCDavis]

Guys, since Golfgal is coming to us for input on an article, let's try to keep this somewhat on track. I'm sure she expects comments like "male strippers" and "shopping malls", but if you're going to post at least offer some constructive input.

Thanks, fellas!

[Wi-Golfer]

Originally Posted by SiberianDVM

So maybe more executive courses?

There are NONE in Augusta. The closest thing to it would be our First Tee course, where I see a lot of women playing.

I tried playing there once after work and they were so darn rude to me that I left. Maybe because I'm male?

Par 3's & executive courses definitely. My wife is not a huge golf fan but she will play a few times a year. She likes the par 3's & executive courses because they don't take all day to play, don't have any 400+ yd holes, most are dirt cheap $$ to play, etc.

On the real courses she prefer to have a few real bathrooms out on the course, a nice selection of womens clothes in the pro shops & a decent restaurant. She doesn't care about where the tee boxes are or if the starter is a male chauvinistic pig. Oh yea, she likes it if the carts are fast too.

[floggerrushmd]

Alright so I have just asked my wife, (I am taking the scientific approach) and she said this:

1. scenic views around the course (I can't seperate her from the DSLR I bought her)
2. Does not like carved out flat fairways and greens
3. Relaxed clubhouse and course staff with ample spacing between groups to keep pace tolerable and people from watching her play
4. Big advantages on some holes, with par 4 holes that have the risk reward of going for the green like the men. (she has been playing for 2 years and has already carded 3 par 4 greens in one)
5. She says bathrooms are not important on the course as long as you can stop at the turn
6. Wide generous fairways with lots of buffer rough before OB/woods
7. Course must be well maintained (and she will point out every dead blade of grass)
8. A big putting green, which allows you to chip as well
9. As far as clubhouse just a bathroom and place to buy food (and she usually orders greasier foods than I do)

This is straight from the horses mouth so to speak, not that I am calling my wife a horse, not that there is anything wrong with horses, they are fine animals big strong fast, I just don't want to be married to one.... hehe

[Pa Jayhawk]

Originally Posted by SiberianDVM

So maybe more executive courses?

There are NONE in Augusta. The closest thing to it would be our First Tee course, where I see a lot of women playing.

I tried playing there once after work and they were so darn rude to me that I left. Maybe because I'm male?

Originally Posted by Wi-Golfer

Par 3's & executive courses definitely. My wife is not a huge golf fan but she will play a few times a year. She likes the par 3's & executive courses because they don't take all day to play, don't have any 400+ yd holes, most are dirt cheap $$ to play, etc.

Possibly on Executive Courses.

Although this topic is kinda interesting when you think about it overall. I used to hit the ball a long way (or let's just say a lot further), and as a matter of wishing to score better I took a lot of yards off my game. I am not really sure with a lot of the courses you see that you do not encounter the same issue with many of the "Average" Male Golfers that I play with and probably myself included now. Slope aside, which is not what I recommend if it is a high slope, I have alway heard that a comfortable distance for most golfers to play from and seems about right to me, is if you were to take the distance you hit your 5i and multiply that times 36. To be real honest, most courses are just not designed to be short enough to be comfortable for the average golfer. I mean, in having gone from hitting my Driver 265 yards and my 5i about 175, I now hit my driver about 230 and my 5i about 160-165 and score better. Although I now find on the average course I could be hitting a 4i or 7w into some of the par 4's, a 7w or 4w into some of the longer par 3's, and there is little chance in hell I will be reaching many par 5's.

So in a nutshell, I am not sure this process is any more discriminator to the ladies than it is the men when many course you may find the shortest tees are over 6300 yards. Sadly many of the men would not even be willing to play a course that short when given other options. Although in playing the course that likely suits my ability as far as distance, I to would be faced with playing to the same spot on the fairway even if it means I am hitting a 7w into a green where my wife may be going for it in 3 as opposed to 2 and someone killing the ball off the tips may only be hitting a 8 or 9i.

FWIW I usually look for Tee boxs around 6300 yards with a slope of under 135 if I intend to play a normal leisurely round. Because of the slope of the courses I am used to it is usually a matter of gauging an accurate distance to suit my game. Which I would bargain to guess is likely the criteria most women use, as I rarely play with any that are not in the fairway 95% of the time.

Well, that and many of the men that "Want to see the whole course" and come dragging in with 115 off the tips because they are forced to try and kill a driver and in doing so will never find the fairway. I guess the only difference is, I have rarely seen many women that have a hugh ego when it comes to the distance of the course, even though I have played with a few that likely should be playing tees behind me but only played the forward tees out of respect to the men in the group.

So I guess another scenario here is that it may not be as unfair as it seems. Maybe you just need to try and kill the ball and pray to God it hits a tree and bounces back in the fairway as the Average male golfer does, as opposed to playing out of the short grass all day.