Does "correct form" exist?

[Turner]

I'm beginning to doubt it...

First, let me say I'm a relative beginner - I shoot over 100, but began taking lessons. I've played on and off, never regularly, for about 16 years. I've played well and I've played poorly but never consistently.

Here's the thing:

EVERY SINGLE BOOK I look at is contradictory.

Put the ball on your left heel. Put it three inches in from your left heel. Keep it the same distance from your left foot and move your right foot in and out based on club. Move the ball toward your right foot for shorter clubs.

Open your stance. Don't open your stance. Turn your foot. Move your right foot back. Move it in.

Ok, how about this: hit UP on the ball when using the driver. But put it near your left foot. So, if hitting up, your club head travels underground, right? Ok, I can hit up. Easily. And I easily, viciously topspin the ball. When I hit down like an iron it seem to work just fine. (Yeah, I know I'm supposed to hit up.)

MAN! I am seriously doubting that there is a "correct form" - do all pros have the same setup, same swing, same follow through? I don't think so.

Sorry for the rant but I'm getting frustrated here. Seriously, if you've looked through golf books you know what I'm talking about.

What gives?

Any help appreciated!

Thanks,
Andrew

[SilverUberXeno]

Do what works. If you hit the ball better from a certain ball position, use it. If you're going to get instruction from books, make sure it's from the same teacher, or at least the same style. MANY books ARE contradictory, because there are a plethora of ways to get the club to where it needs to be.

Keep your weight on the inside of your back foot on the backswing.

Start the downswing with your hips.

Employ a grip that isn't too weak or too strong.

Swing.

[Augster]

The way to hit "up" on a teed up ball is to tilt your spine to the right. This starts your weight a little more on your right foot with your head behind the ball.

Then you make your normal swing around the tilted spine. Your impact position is now on a correct, upward angle of attack.

I will give you the toughest part of consistency. It is what you should be getting out of the books, but it is really tough to find if you aren't reading the correct books.....

As said before, start the downswing with your hips and KEEP THEM MOVING past impact while keeping your head behind the ball.

After that, give up control to gain control. Do NOTHING conscious with your hands or arms. LET them swing into the ball. They have to follow your hips and that is why you start your downswing with your hips. Don't "hit" the ball, it just gets in the way.

The swing happens way too fast and impact is way too short to try to manipulate the clubhead with your arms, wrists, or hands. You "can" do it, but it is almost impossible to be consistent.

The toughest part for me right now is keeping the hips moving. When your hips stop moving, and your upper body is coming along for the free ride, the heavy head starts overtaking the hands and arms and your (my) left wrist breaks down. You need a flat left wrist at impact in order to play golf well.

I hope that helps.

[Turner]

Hi guys- thanks-

I have a pretty easy time with my swing, meaning, I can keep my hips rotating if that's what I'm told. I'll try it out - maybe I'm already doing it, I'm not sure. I do start my downswing with my hips.

All shots feel and fly better when I employ a looser, "swingier" style - a little more overall sway, but it works. Nothing out of control.

Anyway, I'll probably end up making some videos of my swing so I can really see what I'm doing instead of thinking I know what I'm doing by how it feels

Cheers,
Andrew

[295yards]

Originally Posted by Turner

I'm beginning to doubt it...

First, let me say I'm a relative beginner - I shoot over 100, but began taking lessons. I've played on and off, never regularly, for about 16 years. I've played well and I've played poorly but never consistently.

Here's the thing:

EVERY SINGLE BOOK I look at is contradictory.

Put the ball on your left heel. Put it three inches in from your left heel. Keep it the same distance from your left foot and move your right foot in and out based on club. Move the ball toward your right foot for shorter clubs.

Open your stance. Don't open your stance. Turn your foot. Move your right foot back. Move it in.

Ok, how about this: hit UP on the ball when using the driver. But put it near your left foot. So, if hitting up, your club head travels underground, right? Ok, I can hit up. Easily. And I easily, viciously topspin the ball. When I hit down like an iron it seem to work just fine. (Yeah, I know I'm supposed to hit up.)

MAN! I am seriously doubting that there is a "correct form" - do all pros have the same setup, same swing, same follow through? I don't think so.

Sorry for the rant but I'm getting frustrated here. Seriously, if you've looked through golf books you know what I'm talking about.

What gives?

Any help appreciated!

Thanks,
Andrew

>>do all pros have the same setup, same swing, same follow through? I don't think so.<<

Actually more so than not, YES. They do pretty much all have cookie cutter swings. And thats part of the problem. Pros work years and years day after day to develope those swings.
Nowadays a lesson consists of taking a 100+ shooter; like yourself, who'll probably practice and hit balls once a week and placing them side by side on video with the likes of TW and telling you to get all your positions exactly like TW and you'll get better. No stretching and conditioning programs to start off. Just get to here! Good luck with all that.
Not to mention the possibiilty that most pros teaching average guys are incompetent.

[BStone]

Originally Posted by Turner

I'm beginning to doubt it...

First, let me say I'm a relative beginner - I shoot over 100, but began taking lessons. I've played on and off, never regularly, for about 16 years. I've played well and I've played poorly but never consistently.

Here's the thing:

EVERY SINGLE BOOK I look at is contradictory.

Put the ball on your left heel. Put it three inches in from your left heel. Keep it the same distance from your left foot and move your right foot in and out based on club. Move the ball toward your right foot for shorter clubs.

Open your stance. Don't open your stance. Turn your foot. Move your right foot back. Move it in.

Ok, how about this: hit UP on the ball when using the driver. But put it near your left foot. So, if hitting up, your club head travels underground, right? Ok, I can hit up. Easily. And I easily, viciously topspin the ball. When I hit down like an iron it seem to work just fine. (Yeah, I know I'm supposed to hit up.)

MAN! I am seriously doubting that there is a "correct form" - do all pros have the same setup, same swing, same follow through? I don't think so.

Sorry for the rant but I'm getting frustrated here. Seriously, if you've looked through golf books you know what I'm talking about.

What gives?

Any help appreciated!

Thanks,
Andrew

The biggest issue with trying to read articles/books on how to swing the golf club is that each person writing those has a different idea of how to swing the club. If your particular swing doesn't match the thought that they are trying to get across, all kinds of things are going to go wrong. I tell most of my students to try and ignore the "tips" that they read due to the reason I just stated.

As far as your question about all pros having the same swing, no they don't have the same swing when it comes to the full swing, from address to follow through. However, at impact, they are almost all identical.

[BStone]

Originally Posted by 295yards;329931[B

Not to mention the possibiilty that most pros teaching average guys are incompetent.[/B]

Thank you for casting that disparaging net over most of the 27000 PGA Professionals in the country. We appreciate it, especially since we do what we do in an effort to help the "average guy" enjoy the game more. You think I like standing in 100 degree heat trying to help someone who doesn't practice any of the drills that I have given him from his lesson the previous week?

[warbirdlover]

I can see your point BStone. I tried to show my son-in-law the basic KISS method and he ended up ignoring everything I showed him and is doing it his way. In defense of teaching pros, the one I go to when I have issues has me back on track in about five minutes. He doesn't try to reconstruct my swing and has actually said my swing is okay. It's those little things that creep into it and he spots them right away.

Over 40+ years I've tried just about everything and know my swing pretty well. But sometimes you can get off track and there's no other way to get back on but to see a teaching pro you trust.

[Turner]

Thanks again all.

Here's one issue: the instructor hasn't given me a specific drill -at all-. I don't even want to go into what's been going on (how about checking your appointment book while sitting in the cart, while I'm teed up and waiting, and just saying, "go ahead and drive" without looking up? Or spending 3 minutes looking for a ball in the trees when I insisted it went to the next fairway? Which it did..) but I'll be looking for another instructor.

Anyway, BStone, I assume that if I google "pro golfer impact" or "nicklaus ball impact" or something I could find a good reference for that moment?

Any leads appreciated..

thanks,
Andrew

[BStone]

Originally Posted by Turner

Anyway, BStone, I assume that if I google "pro golfer impact" or "nicklaus ball impact" or something I could find a good reference for that moment?

Any leads appreciated..

thanks,
Andrew

You Tube is great for that, search for "swing vision (insert pro you want to see)" Avoid the Darren Clarke shank video though, it is funny, but not what you want to visualize.

[Stanters]

Originally Posted by BStone

You Tube is great for that, search for "swing vision (insert pro you want to see)" Avoid the Darren Clarke shank video though, it is funny, but not what you want to visualize.

I found Luke Donald driving especially useful. It's really clear how he keeps his head behind the ball and rotates. Els in another good one for driving imo.

But when it comes to irons there is only 1 Charles Barkley

[295yards]

Originally Posted by BStone

Thank you for casting that disparaging net over most of the 27000 PGA Professionals in the country. We appreciate it, especially since we do what we do in an effort to help the "average guy" enjoy the game more. You think I like standing in 100 degree heat trying to help someone who doesn't practice any of the drills that I have given him from his lesson the previous week?

Try not to take it so personal, it is only my opinion and my experiences with teaching pros.
I have not yet met one teaching pro that can objectively look at a swing and ignore minute idiosyncrasies. Jim Furyk is a great example. Many teaching pros who are probably more reveered than you told him he would not be able to compete with that swing.

[Turner]

Having gone to the range, a few holes on a course, and various practice areas since starting the thread, I'm realizing that what may really benefit me (possibly some other beginners too) would be to see, rather than some complex, slow-motion, technique-burdened, angle-illustrated version of what someone is demonstrating as a great swing, is this:

Simply, how the various clubheads are intended to strike the ball at the moment of impact to operate "as intended" - also, club head direction relating to what causes backspin, high launch, etc. , and what is intended to happen during different strikes such as punches or sand hits.

This way, I would actually know what the ball is "supposed to be doing" rather than guessing based on what I think is supposed to be happening. And I do think I know what's supposed to be happening, but I'm not sure if I'm right (probably not).

I'm sure this must exist somewhere. I'll seek it out...

thanks,
Andrew

[Skiddlydiddly]

I think everybody simply has different ways of learning. Some have a knack for biofeedback, and learn by feel; some need to see things done and mimic them; some need to know the physics behind it all; some need to do everything possible wrong first in a process of elimination .

Turner, your idea of better understanding the effect so that you figure out the cause could be the way that best suits you. Once you figure out how you best learn, and how to apply it, you can quickly figure out which info helps and which is useless. After that, it's just a matter of putting the time in.

At least, that's my theory.