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Old 04-13-2006, 10:09 AM
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Spin on Approach Shots

I hit an 8iron from @150 over a trap to a slightly elevated green the other day. The ball was low and really moving. I played it off a tight lie and spanked it from back in my stance. When I got up to the green I expected to be off the back. This shot must have stopped within 5-10ft. of where it landed. Have I got the spin figured out? It seems that when I get a ball to spin and stop with a 7-9iron it is almost a knockdown swing??
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Old 04-13-2006, 05:44 PM
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Ezra,
Know what you mean I think, had the same thing today. 25 to 30 yrds out and wide to the left, had to go under the tree branches yet over the sand bunker. squirted it thru but couldnt see the green and figured i was over the green as I thought it was a low "hot" shot. got up and saw it just a few feet past the pin. I think it was a case of really trapping the ball well between the club and ground and the "squirting out" imparted the spin. ?? either way was happy and save a par.
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Old 04-13-2006, 09:45 PM
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Sounds like you got clean grooves, boyz....

OK, dave., that was for you.

Ez, I know you read 5 Lessons, and the exact shot you describe is detailed therein, somewhere around the supination section. It's all about clean contact, and playing the ball back in your stance provides a steeper approach (more spin) and a closed club face (lower trajectory).

And, the grooves, of course....
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Old 04-14-2006, 06:23 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Farquod
Sounds like you got clean grooves, boyz....

OK, dave., that was for you.

Ez, I know you read 5 Lessons, and the exact shot you describe is detailed therein, somewhere around the supination section. It's all about clean contact, and playing the ball back in your stance provides a steeper approach (more spin) and a closed club face (lower trajectory).

And, the grooves, of course....
Actually I've never read it. Maybe I'll pick it up though.
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Old 04-25-2006, 11:22 PM
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I did and would - do what it says though - don't just read and try half of it in one day! Good Luck.
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Old 04-26-2006, 12:11 AM
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I'm a broken record on this...

I've been playing for 10 years and finally read 5 Lessons last winter. I have totally bought into everything Hogan said in that book and have revamped my swing. I am hitting the best iron shots I ever have. I learned more in that book than I have playing, practicing, taking lessons, reading instructional books, and watching DVD's and Golf Channel combined.

It is the single best tome ever written on the golf swing in my opinion.

Get it. Practice it. Live it. It is only $12, and you can read it in about 2 hours. There is really no excuse to not own it and read it.

I just wish I would have read it the day I picked up a club.
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Old 04-26-2006, 12:23 AM
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So I should probably take $12 of the $522 I just made emptying out my bag and buy a copy? I have to get these new irons first. I have to keep it on the DL though. I can't wait to show these things off if I get them.
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Old 04-26-2006, 01:54 AM
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Ez I'll make it easy for you.

You ARE onto the correct golf swing. The CORRECT contact IS just like a punch shot. It's just an extended chip shot. Only a lot faster. Your left wrist is bowed toward the target, just like a forward press before a chip shot. It delofts the club, and pinches the ball. The only difference between the pros and the hacks is this position at impact. The left palm should be more "skyward" as opposed to facing the ground.

That's it. The execution is another thing. Most everyone can hit a chip shot that way, because the club isn't moving that fast. You "can" control it with just your arms and hands. If you try to do that at 80+ MPH, there is no consistent way to do it using arm and wrist muscles. The only way to do it consistently is to use your HIPS turning first, bringing your arms, hands and club down on an inside path giving your arms the "free ride". The pros are the absolute best at doing this.

A couple of excerpts:

Page 101:
"AT IMPACT THE BACK OF THE LEFT HAND FACES TOWARD YOUR TARGET. THE WRIST BONE IS DEFINITELY RAISED. IT POINTS TO THE TARGET AND, AT THE MOMENT THE BALL IS CONTACTED, IT IS OUT IN FRONT, NEARER TO THE TARGET THAN ANY PART OF THE HAND. When the left wrist is in this position, the left hand will not check or interrupt the speed with which your clubhead is traveling. There's no danger either that the right hand will overpower the left and twist the club over. It can't. As far as applying power goes, I wish that I had three right hands!

Every good golfer has his left wrist in this suppinating position at impact. Every poor golfer does the exact reverse. As his club comes into the ball, he starts to pronate the left wrist--to turn it so that the palm will be facing down."

Page 104:

He's talking about supination at impact...

"Second, since this slight supination action places the hands a shade ahead of the clubhead at impact, some loft is subtracted from the face of the club. (That's why you marvel at the distance topnotch players can hit the ball. They actually turn a five-iron into a four-iron. The pronating golfer does just the opposite. He increases the loft of his blade. He makes a seven-iron out of his five-iron.)"

Also on the page, about your original topic...

"The supination action, it should be added, also enables you to get maximum grip, maximum backspin on the ball. It is the explanation behind the most amazing shot in the modern pro's repertoire: the low-flying wedge that looks like it was skulled but which bites immediately when it hits the green and then spins itself out close to where it landed.

When you are playing chips, pitches, trap shots and other strokes near and around the green, the hands should function the same as they do on a full swing. With the obvious exception of the explosion trap shot, remember that you contact the ball first. Hit the ball on the downswing and hit right through the ball. The club face supplies the loft. Supination helps you supply a correct stroke: not a downward chop or an upward scoop but a golf swing with as much coordination as a full shot."

Lastly, a quick check to make sure your left arm is correct at the top of your backswing...

Page 86.

"As he addresses the ball, the golfer creates the angle of the plane of his backswing: the plane inclines along this imaginary line running from the ball to the top of his shoulders and on upward at that established angle of inclination. If a golfer rotates his shoulders on this plane and swings his arms and club back on this plane--neither dropping them below the plane nor, what is much more disastrous, lifting them above the plane--then at the top of his backswing is left arm will be extended at an angle to the ball identical with the angle of the plane. In terms of functioning, which is more to our point, the shoulders, arms and hands will then be in a perfect position to carry out their interrelated movements on the downswing.

Learning to think in terms of this plane has helped tremendously to improve and stabilize the swings of many friends of mine. Like no other visual suggestion, it seems to induce a golfer to make the correct backswing movements TIME AFTER TIME. He folds the right elbow in, just as he should; his left arm is fully extended but not rigid, just as it should be; he completes his full shoulder turn; his hands **** themselves naturally, without any conscious effort, and the back of his left hand is an unbroken extension of the line of his left wrist and forearm. Not only are his arms and the upper part of his body correctly aligned throughout the backswing, but these various component parts tend to be poised TIME AFTER TIME with the proper degree of live, stretched muscular tension ready to be released on the downswing."

In the underlined, I used to get into this position. Now I don't. Since my re-read of the book tonight, I need to get back into this position. The good old "holding a tray with your right hand".

What is depressing, is that Hogan wrote this in 1947. There are tons more inside the book. And it's almost 60-year old public information that is just as true today as the day it was published.


http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/067...lance&n=283155

New and used from $4.14?? Best 5 bucks you can ever spend on your golf game. LMAO!

Last edited by Augster; 04-26-2006 at 01:59 AM..
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Old 04-26-2006, 06:53 AM
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In my IMHO, the bowing of the left wrist with Hogan's weak grip is completely unnatural. And supinating through impact isn't the easiest method either.
You'd be better off having a strong grip, as it is easier to get your hands in front of the ball at impact. You won't hook if you don't oversupinate like Hogan did...
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Old 04-26-2006, 10:55 AM
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"If a golfer rotates his shoulders on this plane and swings his arms and club back on this plane--neither dropping them below the plane nor, what is much more disastrous, lifting them above the plane--then at the top of his backswing is left arm will be extended at an angle to the ball identical with the angle of the plane. In terms of functioning, which is more to our point, the shoulders, arms and hands will then be in a perfect position to carry out their interrelated movements on the downswing."

I finally went back and started taking lessons again last week. After my first lesson, my instructor pointed out on the video that this is exactly what I was doing. All these years of slicing and hooking....hopefully have come to end.
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Old 04-26-2006, 11:24 AM
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I might be miles off here, but didn't Hogan say later that using the word "suppination" was a big mistake?

It's not beyond possibility that I dreamt that, but I'm fairly sure I didn't
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