CCW for Wisconsin?

[warbirdlover]

I came from Kenosha which is nearly as bad as Racine

Wi-Golfer

I don't think one is worse then the other!! Neighbor (single divorcee) had a 6'2" very large white guy trying to break in her door last week. She went to the door with her huge St. Bernard and asked him what the hell he was doing (it was 11:30 PM). He looked at this 250 lb. dog and said "just wondered if you needed your sidewalks shoveled" and she said "get the hell out of here". Big dogs are good. And we're in the nice part of town.

On the street though, someone asks for my wallet I'm going to throw it one direction and run like a screaming coward the other. Do you think the guy is going to go after the screaming coward or the nice little quite wallet.

Pa Jayhawk

The wallet idea is good but I'd carry an "extra" wallet with nothing in it and toss that and run the other way.

And if the guy is unarmed, I'm fairly confident I could beat the crap out of him (or even kill him if necessary) with my hands and feet. I do know how to blow out someone's shoulder, elbow or knee and a few killing techniques. Did you know you have a huge nerve bundle in your armpit that if struck correctly will send a jolt of shock through you that could kill you?

My Karate teacher has killed people in combat (Vietnam) using Karate. This isn't the bullshit stuff you see on TV and taught in most schools. The real stuff is very deadly. Another example, my teacher, when in the Marines in Okinawa, had quite a reputation in the military and a couple Navy guys started picking a fight with him on a beach. One pulled a knife. As was mentioned my teacher started running away since the first thing taught is to avoid the fight. The two guys ran after him. My teacher said the more he ran the madder he got until he finally stopped, turned around, blocked the knife, and hit the guy so hard he took his ear clean off his head. And from what I've seen of his skills I know he did. Obviously the Navy guys turned and ran.

Obviiously I'm no where near his league but he teaches his students very well and I spent five years with him, three days a week, two hours a day plus weekends, fighting in tournaments and seminars. I'm old and don't have much endurance left but if I can get some good ones in right away......

.

[VtDivot]

I don't understand the if someone is trying to break into my house I'm going to shoot him logic...

You'd be doing your family more danger by being a hero... I'd think most break and enters are not intended to harm people, just steal their stuff. Let them take what they want, and call law enforcement. Let the boys wearing Kevlar eat the lead.

[Jules150]

Originally Posted by eclark53520

Actually, the exact opposite happens. Crime rates go down almost immediatly when states pass concealed carry laws.

I could see muggings and street robberies going down because of CCW, but i would see the few muggings and robberies turning into shootings and murders. I wouldnt trade muggings for murders.

[sssmokin]

VtDivot posted: I don't understand the if someone is trying to break into my house I'm going to shoot him logic...

You'd be doing your family more danger by being a hero... I'd think most break and enters are not intended to harm people, just steal their stuff. Let them take what they want, and call law enforcement. Let the boys wearing Kevlar eat the lead.

I'm not going to take a chance on what the intruders' intentions are. They just broke into my home, and I'm supposed to just talk and reason with them? If they wanted to continue living, they wouldn't have done that. I'm sure a killer rapist is going to admit that. He'll just say in a sweet flowery tone "I was just going to take your TV...........my family is starving, and I lost my job.........etc etc." These aren't nice people. These are lowlife dirtbags who don't care who they harm, or what they do. They deserve to die. Period. Do you think the police will save you? They'll arrive in time to put your family in bodybags and write up the report. Are we all going to turn into a society of scared little lambs ready for the slaughter? Not me. That's not being an unnecessary hero.

[eclark53520]

Originally Posted by VtDivot

I don't understand the if someone is trying to break into my house I'm going to shoot him logic...

You'd be doing your family more danger by being a hero... I'd think most break and enters are not intended to harm people, just steal their stuff. Let them take what they want, and call law enforcement. Let the boys wearing Kevlar eat the lead.

I dont know about you, but i work WAY too hard for the cash in my wallet and the items in my home to just stand by while some dirtbag takes it at his will...i worked my ass off for this stuff, and if he/she thinks theyre going to take it for free, they can think again.

Like said above, i am not going to ask why they are in my house uninvited, i WILL NOT retreat in my own home...if they are in my house uninvited, they will die. end of story.

[eclark53520]

Originally Posted by Jules150

I could see muggings and street robberies going down because of CCW, but i would see the few muggings and robberies turning into shootings and murders. I wouldnt trade muggings for murders.

Self Defence <> Murder

[warbirdlover]

Murder? You are removing the vermin from the face of the earth.

[Pa Jayhawk]

Originally Posted by VtDivot

I don't understand the if someone is trying to break into my house I'm going to shoot him logic...

You'd be doing your family more danger by being a hero... I'd think most break and enters are not intended to harm people, just steal their stuff. Let them take what they want, and call law enforcement. Let the boys wearing Kevlar eat the lead.

I guess my question would be, will you just assume at the expense of your families safety and well being that they only intend to rob you???

I have been in a similar situation where fortunately it was not a robber. I actually had a shoe box from shoes I bought that day fall from the top shelf of a closet and into the door. When you wake up at 2 in the morning to what sounds like a door slam, you aren't going to take alot of time to decide what is going on. My reaction was simple, I grabbed the 12 gauge and hit the pump a couple times I then pointed it at the door while we got dressed and climbed out the window because it was on the first floor and that was an option. Had the door started to open, there is no question I would have pulled the trigger and put a massive hole in not only the door but anyone behind the door. had it been the second floor, and knowing my wife was the only one in the house, I likely would have done the same with exception to climbing out the window and staying in a closet. We called the police and they searched the house. We also had our home robbed once, it is something you never forget. I was just happy we were not home.

Again though, you are dealing with a criminal. To assume they are a happy criminal that will not harm you or your family is a serious error in judgment IMO. If you can get out or stay safe, that is the smart move, although if that is not an option and I am confronted with trying to strike up a deal with an obvious criminal or start firing, there is little question I would choose the later.

Although things change this, we have no kids. So if you have kids you obviously need to consider whether it may be them, but you also need to consider what they may do to your kids. I doubt you would set idly by and wait and hope that everything goes o.k. in other parts of the house. Going to investigate unarmed is certainly alot more dangerous IMO

If I had kids and they where not with me, it would be real simply, once I am certain it is not my kid or I see no option of being safe, I would be pulling the trigger. Although I would not likely traipse through the house looking for trouble.

[VtDivot]

Originally Posted by eclark53520

I dont know about you, but i work WAY too hard for the cash in my wallet and the items in my home to just stand by while some dirtbag takes it at his will...i worked my ass off for this stuff, and if he/she thinks theyre going to take it for free, they can think again.

Like said above, i am not going to ask why they are in my house uninvited, i WILL NOT retreat in my own home...if they are in my house uninvited, they will die. end of story.

The cash in my wallet is meaningless to me. I can always make more, it's not worth risking my life over.

My family at home is another matter. I do my best to defend them, hopefully choosing to live in the neighborgood and geogpraphical region I do is enough to protect them.

No. 2 -- Vermont

It's nice to know there are some places left in the world where folks don't have to live under lock and key.

Rankings in Crime

Murder: 48
Rape: 43
Robbery: 49
Assault: 47
Burglary: 38
Motor Vehicle Theft: 48

the reason for this could be this:

LAWRENCE, Kan., Oct. 20 (UPI) -- Vermont retained its title as the nation's smartest state for the second year, while Arizona held the title of being the lowest-ranked of the 50 states.

The rankings were announced Friday in the "Education State Rankings 2006-2007," released by Lawrence, Kan.-based Morgan Quitno Press, an independent research and publishing company.

[warbirdlover]

Vt, good point on education, but what do you do if there are thousands of uneducated idiots pumping out kids like popcorn and letting them all raise themselves with no love or guidance? And then the cycle starts all over again. Vermont must have been at the topo for many years...

And I think Wisconsin is ranked pretty high in that and would be much higher if you removed Milwaukee, Racine and Kenosha!!!

[Jules150]

Did anyone here ever read Freakonomics? We just have to legalize abortion and then crime will plummet along with it

I guess i am lucky enough to live in a good neighborhood where crime isnt much of an issue. We were robbed once, its a terrible feeling but we got over it. But in hindsight we can only blame ourselves and our ancestors for the crime situation we are in today.

[zaphod]

I would support the opinion of the police force on this question. They deal with this issue on a regular basis, should have developed credible opinions, and live the situation. Does it make their job easier or more dangerous?? Do they run into situations where armed citizens have diffused situation? Also can see it can be dangerous for the good Samaritan in a situation such as Virgina Tech. With people wandering the hallways with drawn weapons as a police officer how do you separate the good guys from the bad guys?

I too live in a low crime area with unlocked cars and houses. My dog can run free and is a good deterrent and warning system. Pet door to outside and invisible yard fence so she has run of land.

Appears to me its a case of where you live, your outlook on life, trust of other people AND training.

AGAIN this is NOT a black and white issue. For every scenario one presents an opposing scenario can be brought forth.

The Constitution does state the Right to Bear Arms however it offers little detail. The Supreme Court has upheld laws speaking to what types of weapons a citizen may own and the regulation (registration) of those weapons. Just as we are allowed Freedom of Speech, restrictions such as slander is can be legislated.

What is interesting here is we have divided opinions here among golfers. The very nature of the game means our cross section is more towards the affluent sector of our United States citizenry.
I have an employee that has shot an intruder in apparent self defense and now regrets that action. (He lived in slums of Chicago). The intruder was unarmed and retreating. He shot him 5 times in the back. A fit of anger at being violated led to this. Yet if the intruder was armed he feels he would have been right. Its not a legal issue for him. Its a moral issue. That's what I mean by not being able call a bullet back.

My outlook of this issue would be different if I lived in a urban wasteland ie ghetto area. 5 years ago I drove through the Chicago projects and Gary Indiana. I absolutely would arm myself there. Where I reside now, NO. My profession is more dangerous than my chance of being robbed at gun point.

[MIKE1218]

2 years ago our garage was broken into through the side door. All they took was a can of gas and the cup of change in my dad's truck. Didn't touch the thousands of dollars of tools and what not we had in there. I voted pro CCW. Stabbings among the homies all the time here. My weapon of choice is a golf club, though.

[Pa Jayhawk]

Originally Posted by VtDivot

LAWRENCE, Kan., Oct. 20 (UPI) -- Vermont retained its title as the nation's smartest state for the second year, while Arizona held the title of being the lowest-ranked of the 50 states.

The rankings were announced Friday in the "Education State Rankings 2006-2007," released by Lawrence, Kan.-based Morgan Quitno Press, an independent research and publishing company.

Got a chuckle out of the highlighted part. Second time in 3 days I saw articles from Lawrence, the other was a sports writer article that was picked up by the Pocono Record regarding Bobby Knights retirement.

I would certainly agree with your points, and the reason I still stand by my initial comments that one of the reasons I would not consider carrying a concealed weapon is that I feel my chances are better by relying on my mind over a firearm. Although unlike out on the street, while at home you can only take preventive measures, as do on the street as well. But at 2am in the morning in your home, I can attest to the fact that you are not in the same frame of mind and likely have no expectation of an intruder specifically because you likely feel safer. Not sure I would want to make my home a prison, and as per the prior example of Sean Taylor, I feel like I live in a nice area in a good gated community, but that can only make me a lesser target. I'm the same one that when I drive in less than desirable areas, I consciously pay full attention to my surroundings and an example would be that I leave enough room from the car in front of me so I can get around if need be. So for lack of wanting to live my life in fear, a firearm gives me security I will hopefully never need. Although I am confident with my experience from growing up around firearms since I was 12, I know what to do in an intelligent manner. I certainly would recommend one for someone with no experience, they would like only end up giving the criminal a weapon to use against them, although it is likely they live their life with more fear than I do.

I think fear is a big key here, and a way to control the situation. It can be achieved a number of ways with intelligent thought. That is usually what a criminal counts on. It can have different faces. When I abandon my wallet and run screaming like a coward the other way, as I said I would. I tend to believe at that point I have more control over the situation to meet my goal (making out safe), and probably have less fear than the criminal that now fears being caught and just wants to pick up my wallet and get as far away from the screaming lunatic as possible.

edit 1 - kind of like what I learned while working graveyards. If you get robbed and the robber wants you to go with them. Do whatever you can not to, the top being to piss yourself. Sure, you again look like the terrified coward, but would you want someone in your car that just pissed themself?

[Pa Jayhawk]

BTW, if anyone ever has the opportunity, watch a seminar by JJ Bittenbinder if you ever see it on TV
J.J. Bittenbinder - Becoming a Tough Target
Amazing show that concentrates on being the least likely target. I will never forget a joke from the show.

Two guys are camping in the woods, while sleeping a bear shows up in the campsite and wakes them. While the one guy looks out terrified, the other starts putting on his running shoes. The guy looks at him and says, "What, do you think you can outrun that bear?". He replies, "I don't have to outrun the bear, I just need to outrun you"

Again, be the least likely target. Probably better done with your mind, but is not to say that certain times a firearm could make you the least likely target. I think that is where the wallet thing came from as well, and is what made me think of the show.