CCW for Wisconsin?

[eclark53520]

Between july 1 of last year and january 31 of this year there were 45,615 new licenses issued and 5,000 of those were non-resident licesnse. Also there were 10,705 licenses renewed.

Total valid licenses as of January 31, 2008 is 477,956. There have been a total of 165 licenses revoked do to a crime where a firearm was used. So thats like .00000003% of the total licenses. It does not say how many times guns were used to stop a crime.

To get a florida state permit you have to take a training course that teaches first and formost avoidance, situational awareness, and how NOT to shoot someone. They stress that any fight your in while carrying is now a 'gunfight'. Then they teach you all about the gun laws, and finally how to utilize your weapon of choice. You then have to qualify with your weapon(i cant remember exactly what this involves). This class usually costs about 150$, and then 117$ to the state of florida(includes fingerprints) and they issue you your licesnse so long as everything checks out. After that its up to you.

No more classes, and you have to renew your license every 5 years with a cost of 65$(107$ non-resident).

[zaphod]

With the costs, training time etc one has to be committed to CC. A good way to make people think that step over.

Thanks for the info

[millrivermem]

Well I have read this whole thread.Still do not believe in carrying a weapon...In my opinion..Half the problem is how easy it is to buy bullets..Columbine for example, all bullets bought at Kmart..Whoever is so stupid to think they have a chance to get their gun out and defend yourself before you are mugged..We have a completely different system up here...I'm not sure how it works, all i know is your not allowed to carry a weapon...You can have one in your vehicle though as long as you have a trigger lock on it...I think, from the sounds of it that most of you that want to carry guns are scared as hell...One person said something to the effect that carrying a gun was the more couragous thing to do..Thats A load of BS...I do think you should be able to shoot someone right in the face if they break into your house though....One fact i know for sure is this..As Canadians we have more guns per house hold then americans do..Yet our gun violence rate is like 2 percent of that of Americans...Not saying that "the right to bear arms" has anything to do with it, but it might be the first place to start looking as to why.

[eclark53520]

Well I have read this whole thread.Still do not believe in carrying a weapon...In my opinion..Half the problem is how easy it is to buy bullets..Columbine for example, all bullets bought at Kmart..

That is perfectly fine. I completely respect your opinion, and i do not think you should have to carry a weapon. However, do i not deserve the respect that i have given you?

Whoever is so stupid to think they have a chance to get their gun out and defend yourself before you are mugged..

Tell this to the thousands of people that DO defend themselves with a weapon every year.
You just called me and billions of other humans on this earth that believe we have practiced enough with our weapons that we can use them more efficiently than the criminal that probably is in possesion of an illegal weapon anyway stupid. So criminals are more intelligent than law abiding citizens?


We have a completely different system up here...I'm not sure how it works, all i know is your not allowed to carry a weapon...You can have one in your vehicle though as long as you have a trigger lock on it...I think,

So you have pretty much no clue about the laws and yet everyone else is stupid?

from the sounds of it that most of you that want to carry guns are scared as hell...

I am scared of no one, all i want is the ability to defend myself against the criminal that doesnt follow the same set of rules as i do.

One person said something to the effect that carrying a gun was the more couragous thing to do..Thats A load of BS...

Has nothing to do with courage. Has everything to do with self preservation.


I do think you should be able to shoot someone right in the face if they break into your house though....

So whats the difference out on the street? Its ok for criminals to kill and steal from people as long as they are no in their home?

One fact i know for sure is this..As Canadians we have more guns per house hold then americans do..Yet our gun violence rate is like 2 percent of that of Americans...

Would you mind citing a reliable source for this? Not doubting you, just would like to see numbers.

Not saying that "the right to bear arms" has anything to do with it, but it might be the first place to start looking as to why.

So the right of FREE americans, meaning those of us who abide by all laws and respect the laws of the land having the right to bear arms is whats killing people at a high rate? Criminals are not free, the people that kill other people are not free americans and do not live by the same set of rules, therefore they do not get to share the same set of rights.

I dont even think you understand what i am fighting for here.

[Wi-Golfer]

As Canadians we have more guns per house hold then americans do..Yet our gun violence rate is like 2 percent of that of Americans...Not saying that "the right to bear arms" has anything to do with it, but it might be the first place to start looking as to why.

So it's carrying guns that promotes violence, not owning them?????
Are you attempting to claim that somehow the kids at Columbine were allowed to carry guns in school & that's what percipitated the killings? You start off with how easy it is to buy bullets & then rambled throughout your posting, not quite sure what your argument is.

[millrivermem]

Yeah I totally didnt use paragraphs and when i reread it just now i realize how difficult it is to understand...All i was saying about the Columbine thing was that the bullets were bought at kmart.Trying to stress the point of it being too eay to attain live ammunition..

My source would be that of what seemed to be a pretty biased opinion, so some may not give it credibility..Watch the documentary Bowling For Columbine...Micheal Moore is the one with the statictics..

Basically Clarke,I do not think there is 5 percent of any population that can think straight in a stressful situation...Could be the smartest, nicest person in the world and somehow find themselves in a bad situation, so since they have a gun one them their knee jerk reacion is to pull it out and start spraying it....I'm not saying your not super responsible ,and if you are i commend you for it....I just do not see how anyone can believe that everyone who legally carries is responsible enough...With how scared your media makes everybody.
The thing with defending yourself with a gun againt a criminal comes down to....If you have a gun holstered and buddy has one stuck in the back of your head, you reach for yours and he shoots ya..how well did defending yourself work there? I don't know man..We will never agree on that for sure...Pretty sure though that i would rather get shot in the arm or leg then feel guilty for killing someones mother of father cause they wanted the 7 dollars in my wallet...

[eclark53520]

Yeah I totally didnt use paragraphs and when i reread it just now i realize how difficult it is to understand...All i was saying about the Columbine thing was that the bullets were bought at kmart.Trying to stress the point of it being too eay to attain live ammunition..

Maybe live ammunition IS too easy to obtain, probably a lot harder than it is to obtain a drivers license. Yet we let 16 year olds with sometimes less than 10 hours behind the wheel operate a 2 ton vehicle at speeds that will easily kill them. Should we up the legal age to drive? to what? 21? 25? Look up how many teenagers are killed in traffic accidents and then look up how many are killed by legally obtained weapons.

My source would be that of what seemed to be a pretty biased opinion, so some may not give it credibility..Watch the documentary Bowling For Columbine...Micheal Moore is the one with the statictics..

I'm sorry, but Micheal Moore is hardly a credible source. That would be like me citing the NRA.

Basically Clarke,I do not think there is 5 percent of any population that can think straight in a stressful situation...Could be the smartest, nicest person in the world and somehow find themselves in a bad situation, so since they have a gun one them their knee jerk reacion is to pull it out and start spraying it....

Sir, with all due respect, do you know anyone that has spent hundereds of dollars and gone through hours and hours of training to carry a weapon(which is required by almost every state prior to issueing a license to carry)? These people are not "knee jerk" reaction types. They know exactly what they are getting into and take it VERY seriously. thats not to say there arent a few bad apples in the group, there are, but the percentage is so low is negligable. Look at the numbers i posted from florida in this thread. People with a carry license are Thousands of times less likely to commit petty theft, let alone just whip out a gun and start shooting people with no reason.


I'm not saying your not super responsible ,and if you are i commend you for it....I just do not see how anyone can believe that everyone who legally carries is responsible enough...With how scared your media makes everybody.

If you base your life solely on what the media tells you, you really need to get out and open your eyes to the real world.

The thing with defending yourself with a gun againt a criminal comes down to....If you have a gun holstered and buddy has one stuck in the back of your head, you reach for yours and he shoots ya..how well did defending yourself work there? I don't know man..We will never agree on that for sure...Pretty sure though that i would rather get shot in the arm or leg then feel guilty for killing someones mother of father cause they wanted the 7 dollars in my wallet...

Here is the great thing...that situation would never happen. The number one thing that is taught in self defence classes: "How NOT to be a victim"(basically how not to use your weapon). (ETA: And the number one rule, be aware of your surroundings. If someone can get close enough to you to pull a gun to the back of your head, you were not paying enough attention and that is your own fault.) That entails TONS of stuff that i cannot even start to get into right now. THE LAST option we have, is pulling our weapons. Believe me, the VERY LAST thing i EVER want to do is shoot someone. I dont carry a weapon for the simple fact that i am going to shoot someone with it. Believe me, if there is any way to diffuse the sitution safely without gunfire, i would make every effort to do so, as would 99% of license holders. But you better believe that if i feel my family, loved ones, or believe it or not, even your life is in danger, and my only choice is to shoot the person endangering someone elses life, you bet your ass i will.

red = me(plus i have to enter 10 char outside the quote to post.

[xamilo]

Eveybody should be aloud to hit other people with a 4-iron

Enough said

[Rockford35]

I wish you guys would put some effort into finding an alternative fuel source with the same gusto you go after gun rights. Oil would be a distant second.....

R35

[ezra76]

My opinion is you're more likely to end up shot vs. a criminal with a gun... since yours is "concealed" and his is already out. You've also got to understand that the majority of robberies are committed by drug addicts. They are after one thing, money to get drugs and not in sane state of mind. To tell you the truth, just about every guy I've met that's committed a murder has been a pretty "normal" decent seeming person.

I think a lot of you guys are looking for a fight or reason to use a gun. How many of you have ever been "mugged" or had your house broken into while in it? When was the last time you even got into a fistfight?

I lived on the most notoriously bad street in the city for over a year. I got paid cash and frequently walked around with $500-$1000 in my wallet. I used to carry a 2 1/2 foot steel pipe from the parking lot into my apartment on payday. I didn't really worry about much, crackheads are skinny and malnourished, I could beat the $hit out of them. There were always lots of teenagers on bikes riding around trying to sell crack. I'd thought more than once about coldcocking one of them and robbing them.

Like VTdivot, I also see no reason to ever own a gun. Of course, I'm pretty far onto the "criminal" spectrum in societies eyes, so I guess I'm the more likely to be the offender than the defender.

[eclark53520]

My opinion is you're more likely to end up shot vs. a criminal with a gun... since yours is "concealed" and his is already out. You've also got to understand that the majority of robberies are committed by drug addicts. They are after one thing, money to get drugs and not in sane state of mind. To tell you the truth, just about every guy I've met that's committed a murder has been a pretty "normal" decent seeming person.

I think a lot of you guys are looking for a fight or reason to use a gun. How many of you have ever been "mugged" or had your house broken into while in it? When was the last time you even got into a fistfight?

I lived on the most notoriously bad street in the city for over a year. I got paid cash and frequently walked around with $500-$1000 in my wallet. I used to carry a 2 1/2 foot steel pipe from the parking lot into my apartment on payday. I didn't really worry about much, crackheads are skinny and malnourished, I could beat the $hit out of them. There were always lots of teenagers on bikes riding around trying to sell crack. I'd thought more than once about coldcocking one of them and robbing them.

Like VTdivot, I also see no reason to ever own a gun. Of course, I'm pretty far onto the "criminal" spectrum in societies eyes, so I guess I'm the more likely to be the offender than the defender.

I can draw my weapon from concealment with normal day clothes on and put three rounds into a human sized chest at 25 feet in under 1.5 seconds...

How many times does a person need to be robbed/mugged before they are justified to defend themselves???

What are the downsides to me carrying a weapon that i legally own and am completely qualified to operate?


So what your saying is, its ok for you to carry a steel pipe to defend yourself from criminals but its not ok for me to carry a weapon to defend myself?

Steel pipe = weapon = gun

and if a = b and b = c then a = c

What are the downsides of me getting shot because i tried to pull my weapon on an attacker when i felt my life was in danger?

What are the downsides of me killing a person that was trying to kill me?

[ezra76]

I can draw my weapon from concealment with normal day clothes on and put three rounds into a human sized chest at 25 feet in under 1.5 seconds...

How many times does a person need to be robbed/mugged before they are justified to defend themselves???

What are the downsides to me carrying a weapon that i legally own and am completely qualified to operate?


So what your saying is, its ok for you to carry a steel pipe to defend yourself from criminals but its not ok for me to carry a weapon to defend myself?

Steel pipe = weapon = gun

and if a = b and b = c then a = c

What are the downsides of me getting shot because i tried to pull my weapon on an attacker when i felt my life was in danger?

What are the downsides of me killing a person that was trying to kill me?

How likely are the chances a person will end up protecting his own life vs. ending up one of those "pretty normal seeming" guys doing 35-life? What would you do if I felt you cut me off driving and I come up, kick your door and pound on your car window yelling "You fcking a$$hole!!"... shoot me in the chest? If your answer is even "maybe" you should ask Christopher Hightower before leaving the house with your gun... Oh, he's buried over in Supermax, in cell 23hrs. a day and part of that hour out is take a shower. That was his answer to a traffic argument.

Anyway, just a point. I don't think anyone should be allowed to carry a gun in public unless they are a law enforcement officer. I don't want someone deciding my fate as Judge, Jury and Excecutioner in 1.5 seconds. I'd rather have my right to break a mthfcker's nose for being an a$$hole and not worry about getting shot over it.

[eclark53520]

How likely are the chances a person will end up protecting his own life vs. ending up one of those "pretty normal seeming" guys doing 35-life? What would you do if I felt you cut me off driving and I come up, kick your door and pound on your car window yelling "You fcking a$$hole!!"... shoot me in the chest? If your answer is even "maybe" you should ask Christopher Hightower before leaving the house with your gun... Oh, he's buried over in Supermax, in cell 23hrs. a day and part of that hour out is take a shower. That was his answer to a traffic argument.

Anyway, just a point. I don't think anyone should be allowed to carry a gun in public unless they are a law enforcement officer. I don't want someone deciding my fate as Judge, Jury and Excecutioner in 1.5 seconds. I'd rather have my right to break a mthfcker's nose for being an a$$hole and not worry about getting shot over it.

You would have never gotten to my vehicle had that situation occured. As soon as you get out of your vehicle i am driving away, i dont care if i have to jump medians to do it. However, if for some reason i was trapped, with no where to go, and you were approaching me in a threatening manner and i felt that my life was in danger, you would be dead. I would much rather be judged by twelve than carried by six.

You do realize that to be a police officer, they are required to have less training than i have put myself through? The LAST thing this country needs is for its citizens to be disarmed and have the only people to have guns be the government. Go look up what happens when all guns are comfiscated from the general public...remember nazi germany? DO you think the jews were allowed to have weapons?

Our freedoms are based on the beliefe that our government works for us. That our polic officers work for the law abiding citizens. Our country is supposed to be run by us.

Any person that is willing to give up freedom for "security" deserves neither.

I am getting off on a tangent here...this si about my right to defend myself.

Do i infringe on your right by carrying a gun?

BTW, you never answered my questions.

[ezra76]

What question? Steel pipe vs. gun? You shoot somebody, they die. I'm only going to break a kneecap or a rib or two at worst. If I'm mad enough to kill someone, I'd rather stab them to death anyway so I can get some satisfaction whilst they bleed out.

Your Nazi scenario doesn't really hold weight with me. I didn't say don't own guns period, I'm saying don't carry them on you out in public. What's to stop you from getting jumped and that gun getting taken off you? I mean $hit, if that gun's worth $1000 street value hanging off your hip... a decent sized dude could probably get it off with say... a steel pipe. I'm just fcking with you man. Still, I don't agree with sidearms being carried around. $hit, around here even cops have gotten their guns taken off them and shot death with thier own weapon.

[LyleG]

Seems like a great deal of paranoia rules some people lives.