going rate for a plumber?

[RickinMA]

I know it's going to vary by location and all, but I'm looking to have some pretty basic plumbing done. (adding an indirect fired hot water heater which will require adding a "zone" to my heating system for it and bypassing the domestic hot water coil that's currently in my oil furnace)

my oil company is telling me about 2200 for the job. the list price for the tank is about 1000. they've told me it takes about 6 hours at max (only 2 without heat in the house) and obviously 2 guys are needed to carry the tank in.

being the bean counter than I am, i'm guessing they'll need $100 or so in copper pipe and then I'm being charged $92/ hr for 1 skilled pipefitter and $92/hr for a guy who will help him.

Doesn't that seem a little high? I know they have bills to pay and all, but this is not an emergency repair and I've been a loyal customer since I bought the house 5 years ago

what do you guys think? am I being too cheap?

[Slingblade61]

Why are you doing this and why are you not using an on demand system?

I think this is a smidge high, not wholly unreasonable. What you are describing is not "basic" plumbing. In my mind the job gets done right and gets done quickly. You'll never have to think about it again (or at least until the tank fails.... ).

[RickinMA]

thanks Sling

the Why - The house and oil furnace is about 12 years old and they told me life expectancy of the boiler is only about 15 yrs. - seems crazy to put a new $1,000 coil into something that may only last a few more years - they're also telling me this could cut my oil consuption by 30% (which i don't actually believe, but I don't think they'd say that if it wouldn't cut back the oil used at least a little bit)

the current on-demand system can only do one thing at a time (I've been told it's because my coil in the burner is pretty scaled up) - shower or dishwasher, sink or washing machine, etc and the hot water in the bathtub on the second floor is luke warm at best - I changed the "seats" in the shower valve about a year ago - helped a little, but not enough. Now that the baby has just about outgrown the kitchen sink - it's time to get the tub working

maybe it's not as simple as I thought, but to me, working in an open/unfinished basement can't be that hard

the smidge high I guess is what i'm struggling with - can't believe how cheap I am

What do you think are the advantages of an on-demand system?

[Pa Jayhawk]

May depend alot on the type of tank. We have a boiler and picked up a 40 gallon boilermate tank when we move in, which will regenerate itself from the boiler in about 5 minutes. The only time we will ever run out of hot water is if we fill the Jacuzzi tub on high (then it will be fine in 5 minutes), even if we run the shower, heater, dishwasher, washing machine at the same time. We already have two zones, as we use propane for almost everything, and for the cost of the Boilermate and the work it was either $2200 or $2800, but the boilermate was pretty costly. Probably around $1500 as opposed to a $300 water tank. Although it did take 2 guys working about 5 hours to set it up to work well with our system. If it is more of a boilermate as opposed to a hot water heater, it is not a standard job IMO. They worked their @$$ off (2 of them) for 5 hours. I've seen someone put a hot water heater in in about 30 minutes.

Our plumber is a little higher priced at $95 for the first hour and $85 for each additional. I really have no problem with this because they have probably 100 employees, get the work done quick, and get it done right. Since moving up here, they have done about $10k work in our home because I am finishing the basement. The last time was the only questionable experience (garbage disposal), where who I spoke with did not specify the correct parts (switch), so when they tried to charge me $95 for an hour drive to buy a switch, I quickly told them that I would pay but they may want to consult with the owner first, who I have prior experience with from the basement work, and that because I hire them because the do the job right it would be the last time regardless of what they indicated, the communication error was on their part and not mine. They quickly called and removed the charge.

I could probably have the work done at around $65-75, but I like the idea that I can call 24 hours a day (with additional cost of course), or they will be out in a day and be done regardless of the job.

When they came out for the basement work, they had 3 guys out one time and 2 the other. It was done in a half day for what likely would have taken any other 3 days. I think their attitude is that if it is more than 2 hours work send two plumbers and get it done in one.

They also offer lifetime of labor on any part you buy through them, which is usually at a reasonable cost. So if my shower or plumbing starts leaking, it is free. If the Garbage disposal breaks after 3 years, I pay the price of the disposal.

edit 1 - BTW, the Boilermate work I had done was about 5 years ago, and the reason I couldn't remember if it was $2200 or $2800, but I'm guessing $2200

[Slingblade61]

A tank is always on for one thing.

Tankless only fires when water is called for.

Tankless is eligible for an energy star tax credit.

Here's more..... Rheem Tankless Water Heaters

The ONLY downside I see is that all of these units that I have seen are gas fired so a propane tank would be needed if you run an oil system.

[Pa Jayhawk]

Originally Posted by Slingblade61

The ONLY downside I see is that all of these units that I have seen are gas fired so a propane tank would be needed if you run an oil system.

That was my first thought, it didn't seem to me there would be an advantage to Oil fired over a standard hot water heater. Actually, I didn't know they were made for other than Natural gas or Propane. For Propane there is a serious advantage. For the first 2 years we lived here, the Propane boiler scared the heck out of me, until I settled down and saw the advantage. But with propane, and the cleaner burning fuel, it comes at a cost.

[RickinMA]

Thanks guys
This proposal is for a Boilermate from my oil company. having now looked at it myself (vs just what my wife told me over the phone earlier) it doesn't look that bad. I hadn't considered the cost of the Therm-x-trol expansion tank, circulator, etc
Glad to hear you're happy with yours Jayhawk.
Sling you've certainly given me something to think about - I always thought the tankless thing made sense - any idea what propane costs?

[Rockford35]

Originally Posted by RickinMA

Thanks guys
This proposal is for a Boilermate from my oil company. having now looked at it myself (vs just what my wife told me over the phone earlier) it doesn't look that bad. I hadn't considered the cost of the Therm-x-trol expansion tank, circulator, etc
Glad to hear you're happy with yours Jayhawk.
Sling you've certainly given me something to think about - I always thought the tankless thing made sense - any idea what propane costs?

$2.59 a gallon, residential. Wholesale is about a buck and a half, USD. That's up about 52 cents from this time last year. Propane costs are directly linked to Crude Oil.

Not that I keep track or anything.

R35

[RickinMA]

Thanks Rock - any idea how many gallons one of those tankless water heaters would use - on average?

[Pa Jayhawk]

We're locked in at 2.44 right now. Probably no surprise it's highest its been in the 5 years we've used propane. I think we locked in at 1.89 last year.

As far as use, it does our water heat, stove, dryer, fireplace and hot water. So while we use alot more in the winter, we likely go through maybe 40-50 gallons a month in the summer months for the hot water, stove and dryer. about 3 times that in the winter. Probably will be less now that we found out the people who lived here prior had a bad louver on the boiler and instead of fixing it just left it open all the time.

With a 500 gallon tank, they deliver between 170-200 gallons about every 6 weeks in the winter, they we usually only see them once sometime between April and October.

Originally we didn't have a tank, but just the boiler and I really don't notice a difference in usage between just the boiler and the boiler with a tank.