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#91 (permalink)  
Old 08-21-2008, 11:40 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SilverUberXeno View Post
A forum just isn't a place for a conversation like this. But it is genuinely disappointing that so many people are willing to accept that they know nothing, and never will.

There are a lot of statements I'd like to answer, but it's senseless. There are more stolen abstractions and frozen concepts in this thread than I've seen in a long time.
Sadly Xeno, they belong to myself and you as well.

I might ad that you were a key contributor to the...diversion that this thread has taken. While I appreciate an attempt and intellectual conversation concerning "God" and such, perhaps you should've digressed earlier before it became what it was.

Lest I remind anyone that I did request that we stay on-topic in my original post.
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#92 (permalink)  
Old 08-21-2008, 11:48 PM
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Aye, I see there's really a reason for the "stay on topic" thing...

I meant no disrespect to anyone with my "a forum is no place for..." statement. I just mean that this particular discussion is so massive and vast that if there are various inputs coming in at random intervals, it's just a complete mess. Nothing would ever get accomplished.

It's good that you're all thinking about this sort of thing. I wish you were doing a better job of it, though =\
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#93 (permalink)  
Old 08-21-2008, 11:49 PM
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Ez, read a basic anthropology textbook. Yeesh...
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#94 (permalink)  
Old 08-21-2008, 11:50 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SilverUberXeno View Post
Aye, I see there's really a reason for the "stay on topic" thing...

I meant no disrespect to anyone with my "a forum is no place for..." statement. I just mean that this particular discussion is so massive and vast that if there are various inputs coming in at random intervals, it's just a complete mess. Nothing would ever get accomplished.

It's good that you're all thinking about this sort of thing.
Bygones then bud? I didn't get too into it anyway, beyond drab concepts for my own amusement.
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#95 (permalink)  
Old 08-22-2008, 01:30 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SilverUberXeno View Post
Ez, read a basic anthropology textbook. Yeesh...
Nah, no intererst. I'm just a furniture mover. I could care less about evolution or aliens or whatever. I'm only worried about paying my rent and car payment. If it doesn't effect me directly, I could give a flying F.
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#96 (permalink)  
Old 08-22-2008, 02:09 PM
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A reasonable statement, Ez, but you do want to be remotely knowledgable about something in order to voice an opinion on it. You're smarter than the average furniture mover and human origins are pretty interesting. But if you want to have a conversation about, for example, cells, you ought to read a little on it first, ya know? Otherwise you're just shooting in the dark.

After all, people who aren't qualified to explain things are the ones who created religion and God in the first place.
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Old 08-22-2008, 03:10 PM
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Originally Posted by SilverUberXeno View Post
After all, people who aren't qualified to explain things are the ones who created religion and God in the first place.
SUX,

Until you can 100% prove that religion is 100% false, leave your arrogance and asinine comments about religion out of your posts. There are some of us reading this that disagree with you and are growing tired of your tone.

Realize that you could be wrong. I know that's hard for you to fathom, but it's 100% possible.

No long lasting animosity intended, but ease off, please.
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Old 08-22-2008, 03:43 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SilverUberXeno View Post
.... I was convinced that you'd be one of the guys siding with truth over make-believe. The existence of a God is such a ridiculous notion, and you're such a genuinely smart guy in other aspects of thought......
I quit reading this discussion after reading this rather condescending and dogmatic statement. After a report to moderator, I'm back.

Some people believe in God, some don't. Both have the right to their opinions. Both have the right to state their opinions, and in a forum such as this, are expected to state their opinions without denigrating the intelligence or other attributes of the other participants.

Let's keep it civil, people!

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#99 (permalink)  
Old 08-22-2008, 05:12 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MCDavis View Post
SUX,

Until you can 100% prove that religion is 100% false, leave your arrogance and asinine comments about religion out of your posts. There are some of us reading this that disagree with you and are growing tired of your tone.

Realize that you could be wrong. I know that's hard for you to fathom, but it's 100% possible.
Here's my issue with "prove that religion is 100% false," and it's worth explaining because it is a very important part of rational thinking, called the "onus of proof."

Rational systems operate by allowing the burden of proof to rest on the positive. "Innocent until proven guilty" is a common example of this; "prove it to be true". The Salem Witch Trials were an example of a "prove it to be false."

You cannot directly prove that something does not exist, because proof is tangible and detectable. Something that does not exist would leave no mark on reality, and therefore no means my which to prove non-existence.

To illustrate, consider a beach. "Prove that somoene walked along the beach" is possible because, if in fact somebody did, there would be evidence of this. There would be footsteps, or waste even, or some sign that something had happened. If no evidence was present due to waves or an insane bunker-raker who found a beach and went nuts, you would declare that there is no reason to assume someone walked along the beach.

"Prove that someone DIDN'T walk on the beach" is actually impossible. The only thing you could do is infer based on proving things that ARE tangible and detectable. You could illustrate the undisturbed sand, the lack of debris, etc., but you would never have direct proof that no one was there, because nothing produces no evidence of itself.

So, the "prove religion is 100% false" is just irrational, and could be brought to stalemate by saying "prove religion is 100% true." The difference is that, logically, you should not believe something until you have good reason to do so. You may make an insane claim, such as "There are gremlins living on the other side of Jupiter in an underground, invisible colony!" and never be proved wrong; that does not mean your claim is valid.

It's a logic thing. If you assume that a lack of being proven wrong makes something valid, and you are consistent in your thinking (which is critical), then I can't imagine how you deem anything as possible or impossible.

P.S.

I actually enjoy this kind of discussion. I don't hate any of you guys; I am genuinely passionate about the use of rationality and logic. I've seen the opposites lead to very bad things in the past, and genuinely hope none of those things happen to you. Consider this exhibitionary; I certainly have no reason or desire to force anybody to change their minds unless they really want to. It's a test of logic.
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#100 (permalink)  
Old 08-22-2008, 06:49 PM
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I personally don't believe in the existence of any "god", but I also won't knock those amongst us who do believe. I can neither prove nor disprove any of it, there is nobody who can. You either believe or you don't.

When I was younger I did believe, was raised in a Luthern household, attended communion classes, etc etc. Had my 1st communion when I was in the 8th grade & was promptly handed a box of envelopes. I asked the pastor what was I expected to do with them & he told me I needed to give to the church or I wouldn't be allowed into heaven. That was enough for me, told them to piss off & haven't been back since.

In addition my mother had a friend who had a son, he was 5 years old & had some sort of incurable liver disease. Other kids wouldn't play with him because he was stunted in his growth & he had a number of small growths on his body. I was about 12 at the time & befriended him & he really seemed to enjoy the time we spent together. Then one day he died & to this day it bothers me when I think of it. I think it's complete bs that a compassionate & just "god" would do this to a small child & his mother, yet allow pieces of crap like John Gacy or Dahmer continue to walk the face of the earth.
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#101 (permalink)  
Old 08-22-2008, 06:52 PM
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Well, debating about why God may or may not care about every little thing is like splitting hairs. There's plenty of inconsistency and contradiction in organized religion; I mean, there are so many of them in the first place. The existence of ANY God is what I have been discussing.
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