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Old 05-31-2006, 01:56 PM
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Ethanol....saviour or pipe dream?

“With high gas prices making alternative fuels increasingly attractive, no alternative fuel has received as much attention as ethanol. Some hail the fuel, which can be derived from plants including corn, wheat, barley and sugarcane, as a savior of American energy policy, while others see it as a fad popularized by its heavily subsidized corporate backers.

The reality is complex. Though still a tiny industry compared to gas, ethanol could become a more prominent part of the U.S. and world fuel supply in coming years.

Still, as ethanol's public profile rises, there's plenty of misinformation swirling around and a host of questions. What exactly is ethanol? How is it made and used? And is it really a viable alternative to gas? Here's what you need to know now.

What exactly is ethanol?
The fuel is derived from plants through a fairly straightforward process. In one common method Corn, is first ground into a fine powder, mixed with water, and then heated. An enzyme is then added to convert the mixture into sugars before yeast is added to ferment it. The resulting liquid, called "beer," is about 10% alcohol. A distillation process then separates the alcohol from the rest of the mixture before the remaining water is removed. The result is essentially pure alcohol. A small amount of gas is added to render the liquid undrinkable. Then the fuel can be used by itself or as a supplement to gasoline to power cars.

Ethanol has three advantages, at least in theory: It's renewable, it can be domestically produced, and it burns cleaner than gas. The world's largest producers of ethanol are the U.S., which makes it primarily from corn, and Brazil, which mashes the stuff out of sugarcane.

Beyond high gas prices, why is everyone talking about ethanol?
It's becoming an increasingly important part of the fuel supply, and has the potential to become still more crucial. President George W. Bush and members of Congress have expressed support for ethanol use. And this spring, refiners in parts of Texas and the Northeast have been replacing a gasoline additive called MTBE (for methyl tertiary-butyl ether) with ethanol. MTBE, a chemical used to oxygenate fuel, can contaminate drinking water. And Ethanol which does not present the same danger, can serve the same purpose in fuel.

That's not all. The 2005 energy bill requires that the U.S. boost its ethanol production to 7.5 billion gallons by 2012, up from about 4 billion in 2005. This sounds like a whole lot of ethanol, but bear in mind, last year the U.S. slurped up almost 140 billion gallons of gas.

Are there any problems with ethanol?
Oh, yes. Ethanol can't travel in pipelines along with gasoline, because it picks up excess water and impurities. As a result, ethanol needs to be transported by trucks, trains, or barges, which is more expensive and complicated than sending it down a pipeline. As refiners switched to ethanol this spring, the change in transport needs has likely contributed to the rise in gas prices. Some experts argue that the U. S. doesn't have adequate infrastructure for wide ethanol use.

Also, ethanol contains less energy than gas. That means drivers have to make more frequent trips to the pump.

Doesn't producing ethanol on a large scale use a great deal of energy?
Yes. Some ethanol skeptics have even argued that the process involved in growing grain and then transforming it into ethanol requires more energy from fossil fuels than ethanol generates. In other words, they say the whole movement is a farce.

There's no absolute consensus in the scientific community, but that argument is losing strength. Michael Wang, a scientist at the Energy Department-funded Argonne National Laboratory for Transportation Research, says "The energy used for each unit of ethanol produced has been reduced by about half [since 1980]." Now, Wang says, the delivery of 1 million British thermal units of ethanol uses 0.74 million BTUs of fossil fuels. (That does not include the solar energy -- the sun shining -- used in growing corn.) By contrast, he finds that the delivery of 1 million BTUs of gasoline requires 1.23 million BTU of fossil fuels.

Producing ethanol could get more efficient soon as new technologies help farmers get more corn per acre of land and allow ethanol producers to get more of the fuel from the same amount of corn. The companies developing new corn technologies include chemical giant Dupont and Monsanto, which sells genetically modified seeds as well as chemicals for protecting crops.

So where can I find ethanol?
There's a good chance you're using it already. It's mixed into gas in many regions of the country including the corn-belt Midwest, and states like California and New York which had already banned MTBE. The regions making the transition this spring are the Northeast and parts of Texas.

Cars in the U.S. can normally drive on E10, a mixture of 10% ethanol and 90% gasoline, that is sometimes called gasohol. It's how Americans usually take their ethanol. Relatively few cars available here are "flex-fuel," meaning that they can run on much higher concentrations of ethanol. The fuel E85, which is 85% ethanol, is sold at some gas stations concentrated in the Midwest.

Is ethanol cheaper than gas?
Surprise, surprise, it isn't. The move this spring by more regions to use ethanol means that demand has spiked, driving up prices. On Monday, the New York harbor price was around $3 per gallon compared with about $2.28 for gasoline (before being mixed with ethanol). In other words, for now ethanol is helping to increase prices at the pump, not to push them down.

So ethanol production and distribution are also controlled by market forces, right?
Only to a certain degree. In addition to heavily subsidizing the ethanol produced domestically, the U.S. government levies a 54 cent per gallon tariff on imports from other countries, such as Brazil, a lower-cost producer. This, of course, discourages the U.S. from importing cheaper ethanol.

Why not eliminate the tariffs?
Well, the idea behind the tariffs is to foster domestic production of ethanol. But amid the ongoing furor over high gas prices the idea of repealing the levy has gained momentum in Washington. Though it would probably annoy ethanol producers like agricultural giant Archer Daniels Midland, removing the tariffs could have some benefits. It would help ease price pressures and would likely encourage Brazil to boost its ethanol production. However, it's probably not a short-term solution.

Brazil is undergoing an ethanol revolution far more drastic than that in the U.S. Flex-fuel cars which can run solely on ethanol are widely available and the ethanol supply is short enough that the government recently reduced the mandatory ethanol content in gasoline from 25 to 20 percent.

"Brazil is the model" for how ethanol can be brought into use, wrote Citigroup analyst P. J. Juvekar in a recent report. But while buying ethanol from Brazil could be useful in the future, it's not going to reduce the pain of a road trip this summer.

What companies stand to benefit from increased ethanol use?
There is a crop of American ethanol producers. ADM is by far the largest, pumping out about one-quarter of the U.S. total. MGP Ingredients is one of the many smaller companies involved. Verasun Energy and Aventine Renewable Energy, two other producers of note, have recently filed to go public.

What can we expect to change in the future?
At present commercial corn-based ethanol comes from corn kernels. One of the more exciting ethanol prospects on the horizon is cellulosic ethanol, which can be made from a number of plant by-products, including cornstalks. Although it's unlikely to be commercially available for at least a few years, cellulosic ethanol eventually could help substantially reduce costs. In other words, your car in the future could run on the refuse of farms across the U.S.”

Discuss.

R35
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Old 05-31-2006, 02:51 PM
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I read an article in Car and Driver magazine about this last night. One of their main points was brought out in your discussion: the amount of energy needed to produce a gallon of Ethanol is relatively high and there is no current agreement on exactly how much energy is required, but it ain't low.

Therefore the relative benefits derived from using Ethanol are marginal at best. Of course, if technology could advance so that the manufacture of the fuel could be more efficiently accomplished, this could make a difference.

I cannot remember the exact number but the magazine projected that if the amount of ethanol production tripled in the next five years and the current state of energy used to produce a gallon was not meaningfully improved, the net effect on U.S. imports of foreign oil would be about .5 (one half of one) %.

To quote Willie: Much ado about nothing.
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Old 05-31-2006, 03:18 PM
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Another problem mentioned in your article is mpg.

Who wants to pay the same or more E85 only to get worse mileage.

Another potential issue I'm concerned with is pork. Not the american breakfast kind, but the sort of pork that might end up in the hands of corn growers if ethanol becomes too popular an idea with politicians. You know the lobbyist are already thinking of this.

I think plug-in hybrids will see commercial success before ethanol.
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Old 05-31-2006, 03:20 PM
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Invent a plug-in hybrid with a wind-mill on top. Think about it.
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Old 05-31-2006, 03:28 PM
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Please reveal your source, good sir Rock.
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Old 05-31-2006, 03:33 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by token_hottie
Please reveal your source, good sir Rock.
MSNBC.

Ethanol-Facts and Myths (MSNBC)

A little birdie sent me an article about the Tar Sands which prompted me to dig this out.

I work with geologists, so oil and uranium (nuclear) are big on our radar screens. Talk to any geoscientist and they'll tell you the same thing - Ethanol is bunk. For right now, anyways.

Dave, MPG isn't much of an issue if it's a renewable resource. However, the costs and environmental effects of producing it make this moot.

R35
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Old 05-31-2006, 03:49 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bdcrowe
Invent a plug-in hybrid with a wind-mill on top. Think about it.
Hehehe......
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Old 05-31-2006, 04:08 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rockford35

Dave, MPG isn't much of an issue if it's a renewable resource. However, the costs and environmental effects of producing it make this moot.

R35
It is if I'm the one paying $3.00 a gallon for it.
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Old 05-31-2006, 05:55 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DaveE
It is if I'm the one paying $3.00 a gallon for it.
Aren't you paying $3.00 a gallon now?

By the time that ethanol comes online (if ever), $3.00 a gallon will be a steal, even at 18mpg instead of 23.

R35
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Old 05-31-2006, 06:04 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rockford35
Aren't you paying $3.00 a gallon now?

By the time that ethanol comes online (if ever), $3.00 a gallon will be a steal, even at 18mpg instead of 23.

R35
I'm just saying that if gas and ethanol were the same price, I'd buy gas and I doubt that will happen. For people to voluntarily buy ethanol it will need to cost less than gas.

And I'm paying $2.58 this week.
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Old 05-31-2006, 06:12 PM
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This is the very reason why Ethanol isn't produced.

1) it costs alot to produce
2) the savings aren't there
3) not as efficient as gasoline (from a power and transport standpoint)
4) there's no money in Ethanol, so no push from major players to produce it. Remember Iraq? And why are you guys there again? Oh right, political aspirations....(cough)....oil...

R35
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Old 05-31-2006, 06:26 PM
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The problem is (as it usually is) if the government get involved. I assume that there are goverment tax advantages and subsidies for ethanol producers. In a truly free market the cost/benefit basis would be clear.

Wasnt there a big deal about extracting oil from shale in colorado?? back in the late 70's early 80's?? what ever happened with that?

As a Libertarian I respect the sites request to avoid politics (he he). But is political comment allowed in our signatures??
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Old 05-31-2006, 08:52 PM
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Quote:
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But is political comment allowed in our signatures??
Nope.

But you can become a Premium Member and spout off all you want!

R35
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Old 05-31-2006, 10:31 PM
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whats wrong with cars that run on water and air?

is it because they're enviromental friendly that they dont get a mention?
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Old 05-31-2006, 11:31 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by golfman2760
whats wrong with cars that run on water and air?

is it because they're enviromental friendly that they dont get a mention?

Uh, you mean hydrogen?

No nuclear reactors around here, sorry dude.

R35
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