Laminate flooring - questions and opinions?

[Rockford35]

We have two pups, and we want to redo our kitchen and back entryway with some nice laminate. I've done a little research, but it's often better to ask around and get some opinions too.

How does laminate hold up in a kitchen? How tough is water on it in terms of warping, staining, ect.? I've heard polar opposites on this subject, that hardwood it better, or laminate is better.

Opinions? Comments?

R35

[ezra76]

My dad used real hardwood when he tore up all the carpets 2 years ago. The big advantage I see is being able to sand down and refinish a spot, which he already had to do once. You will have your choice of stains and finishes. I don't know a whole lot about the laminates. I've seen them in a lot of houses, as I move furniture. The bad thing I would say about most of the laminates is if you tear one up you'll have to pull and replace that section I would think.

[Rockford35]

Which isn't a problem, really.

Laminate is more durable and doesn't need refinishing, which is one of it's pluses. It's also cheaper, so having peices for boo-boos on hand is no problem.

It does have some drawbacks, like not being hardwood.

As far as I've read, it's pretty safe for anywhere. I actually read a story about a guy that put it in his garage, if you can beleive that.

R35

[SunnyDaze]

A friend has wood laminate in his entire livingroom/dining room/kitchen area, and they have 2 dogs as well. They have had the floor for several years now, and have not had any problems at all, including clean up after spills in the kitchen (no damage). It was not the top of the line stuff, just mid-range from Home Depot.

[DouginGA]

just my .02 rock but a lot depends on the quality of the laminate. If the pooches dont have their nails clipped regularly your gonna have an ugly mess after the finish comes off and the dirt comes in thru the entryway.

Looking for something you can do yourself? sounds like ceramic tile would be a much better choice to consider?

and you say "we" ? best bet then is "whatever she wants"

[bames]

I just installed laminate flooring in my new home, and tile in my last house. I have a 2 year old who is infatuated with golf and water. (Hmmm, wonder where he got that?). Laminate is much easier than tile. I put it in my entryway, hallway, breakfast nook, kitchen, and laundry room. With the help of a friend I did it in two night's work. I've never seen any damage done to ours and it has taken it's share of water, my old Titleist 7 iron, trucks, and trains. I've only seen it damaged one time, at Eddie's house oddly enough, when my mother-in-law dropped a heavy steel pot from above the fridge onto the floor. It dented the laminate, but that was it. There certainly are varying degrees of durability in the stuff. I was taught that if you are at all concerned about possible water damage in the kitchen or something, you can glue the joints in those areas.
Natural wood can go down quite fast as well, but takes a little more craftsmanship. My neighbor is a homebuilder and just finished his own floor in real wood. It already has some dents and scrapes, but looks incredible. When asked how hard it was, he just said to lay it down in a pattern like shingles and have the correct tools. He said the right tools, namely the nail gun that pulls the pieces together, will make all the difference in the world.

[Bravo]

Rockola:

Five years ago, I needed to cover an existing, very cheap and poor quality, parquet floor in three BR's and a hallway.

I did a lot of research and bought "engineered hardwood". This is a real hardwood floor that is manufactured with three layers of wood. It comes in large planks that have been pregluded together. In the industry, this is called a "floating floor" because it is not nailed or glued to the subfloor but is held in place by the moulding around the edges. I watched the installers put it in and they just flew...putting in about 1000 square feet in just a few hours. (There is a specific pad that is put down before the floor is overlayed, making the floor also more comfortable to walk on. It gives a bit as you step down on it...)

This floor is less costly than traditional hardwood and the labor cost to install it is lower also. It comes from the factory pre-finished and has a long warranty. If you want to change the color, you can do it the same way you do it with a traditional hardwood floor: grind it down, restain it and finish it.

After five years, it has held up just as well as traditional hardwood. In fact even better. In the other side of my house, (kitchen, 2 BR's and hallway) the traditional hardwood flooring has "cupped" due to moisture absorbsion and frankly, needs to be ground down to a smooth surface and refinished. This floor is glued down and cupped because it had no room to expand as it absorbed the moisture...therefore the individual planks cupped at the edges...

If you are interested in this option, I will try to remember the manufacturer. Its damn good stuff and I think guaranteed for 25 years or so...

[DaveE]

Rock, the floor in the living room and the room you stayed in is laminate. You saw the size of my dogs and I've yet to find a scratch.

Life several of you mentioned, the quality of the laminate is important. I also have a couple of young grandkids so these floors have had plenty of spills too. No damage.

If we didn't have dogs I would have considered hardwood though because I don't think anything matches the look of real wood.

[Davebud]

Unless your house is in the upper third of your real estate market, I would go ahead with the laminate. I have seen problems with warping but they were extreme situations. One was a pipe leaking under the kitchen sink for a little over a week before anyone noticed, another time someone put a screw through the hot water pipe in an upstairs shower and the hot water leaked through the midfloor for a 3 day weekend, the midfloor also collapsed into the dining room, but the hot water did get the laminate floor to warp. In both cases the builder just removed a portion of the floor instead of the whole thing, much cheaper than refinishing the same floor. Did another house where the same thing happened to real hardwood, 4000 bucks to fix it, as opposed to 300 on the more expensive of the 2 laminate fixes, you do the math, after all its your coin.

[ProjectX]

Here's the basics Rock:

You have 4 general options for wood or "wood" flooring. They are:

1) Laminate (ie. Pergo) which is a layered wood substrate with an ultra high resolution photograph of wood as the topmost surface.

2) Engineered hardwoods. Similar to laminates, but use a thin layer (usually about 1/32nd to 1/64th of an inch) of actual wood as the topmost surface.

3) Prefinished hardwoods. Genuine hardwood all the way through with a fatory applied stain and (usually) polyurethane topcoat.

4) Site finished hardwoods. Raw milled hardwoods that are installed and then sanded / stained / urethaned in place.

There are pros and cons to all 4 options. IMHO, laminates usually look cheap. They are generally pretty thin and are often floated over the subfloor (not glued down). They often sound "hollow". However, if you are installing below grade (basement), they are usually the best bet. They are very durable and very structurally stable (meaning they are relatively immune to changes in moisture / humidity).

If you go engineered, DO YOUR RESEARCH!!!! Some are great, some are absolute garbage. Usually, the more plies in the substrate, the better (I suggest 7 minimum). A word about warranty......read it carefully! When a product touts a 15, 20, 25 or whatever year warranty, more often than not it's referring to wearing through of the urethane finish ONLY.

As a side note on appearance, I really dislike the products that are multi-plank wide and uniform width. What you end up with is a floor that looks like it has butt joints that span 2, 3, 4 board widths. Ugly.

Pre-finished hardwoods are generally pretty dang nice.

Site finished can be great and are very versatile / easy to repair, but they are messy to install! When it comes to the finished product, you are competely at the mercy of the installer.

Regardless which way you go, think carefully about the THICKNESS of the product. Traditional hardwoods are 3/4" thick, the thinnest products out there are about 5/16ths". Thickness comes into play not only for longetivity / durability, but also for finished floor height with respect to adjoining rooms and doorways (having to cut the bottom of a door for clearance is a real possibility).

Lastly, pay attention to the various installation methods. Traditional hardwoods are blind nailed or stapled over top of a moisture barrier (usually 15 pound roofing felt). Other methods are floating or glue down. The manufacturer will dictate the acceptable installation method. If you are installing over a joisted subfloor, the planks are installed perpendicular to the joists below.

HTH

[justagolfer]

I just went through the laminate/wood question for my remodel.

I was set to buy hardwood, and was just verifying my position with the salesman. First he asked me about my lifestyle, kids, and then pets.

We use our house and kitchen. We don't sit around and look at it. It's nice, but made to be used. I have two kids, 13 boy and 15 girl. Friends over all of the time. Kids dance parties, swim parties, etc. 2 dogs, 40# Aussie & a 100# Berner. Sales guy looked at me and asked if I wanted to spend the rest of my free time (what free time?) maintaining h/w. Forget it. Put down a high quality laminate, we wear the hell out of it and I can't even see a scratch. Seems to hold up well with the kids running in and out to the pool too. They don't seem to understand what "dry off" means.

[Farquod]

Kitchen, back entryway? What about tile over Durock? Glasses shatter when dropped, but otherwise it wears like iron and looks great. No refinishing, no wear (depending on the tile, 'natch!) 'Course, it can get a little cold for the pups if you don't put down a rug or 2 for them, especially up there in sub-zero land...

[Rockford35]

Excellent work, guys.

Dave, I remember your floors well. Hence my turning to the laminate. But I agree, real wood rules.

Davebud, our house is easily in the bottom 1/3 of the city, but that doesn't mean that well finished hardwood won't help you bring as much as 15% more on your house value. Alot - ALOT - of people around here don't want to be put out putting hardwoon in, so if it's done, they'll pay a premium for it.

The trouble with tile is that it's cold, damn cold. Especially here in cold land. I won't put in radiant heating, as it's freaking expensive and expensive to run. A nice laminate and underlay insulation works just fine.

I'm not so worried about the wear and tear as I am about water. I would hate to have a floor in and then have something like the dishawasher die and pump water all over the floor and feck it up.

My dad has old school laminate in his place and it looks brand new. Durability seems to be good, even for middle of the road.

Has anyone ever installed laminate down some stairs? I'm sure it's pretty easy, but just curious if anyone had some tips. I have 3 stairs to do.

Thanks again, everyone.

R35

[DaveE]

Ours came with an instruction video that was very helpful and had tips for stairs etc. If you decide to go that route be sure to ask for one.

We've had plenty of spills without a problem but I'm guessing a broken pipe would ruin it.

[Rockford35]

Originally Posted by DaveE

Ours came with an instruction video that was very helpful and had tips for stairs etc. If you decide to go that route be sure to ask for one.

We've had plenty of spills without a problem but I'm guessing a broken pipe would ruin it.

I was reading on the Armstrong site that alot of mid grade and higher laminates have a water proofing put into their core from the factory that makes them water proof. Now, I dunno if that works with cuts, ect, but it's at least raising my curiousity.

R35