Packers DESTROY Bears

[warbirdlover]

I wouldn't have believed it if I hadn't seen it. Total dominance.

[eclark53520]

Yeah...we could have played a local highschool team and scored less...

Bears played like absolute crap...and pack really brought it together...when both happen on the same day...its not even that fun to watch...

[ualtim]

Is it safe to say all the whining about Favre leaving and being stuck with Rodgers is over up Cheesehead Land?

[JEFF4i]

Maybe, just maybe, Favre leaving was good for the NFL.

Why? Look at the Jets, not solely Favre, but he sure helps. And it gave Aaron the chance to step up, and they are sitting at 6-4 now.

[xamilo]

Ok, the Bears suck, you are all right. When Collins and the Titans win a game by air you start thinking....

Now, well, there is nothing else to think about. Guess they brought Orton back from injury before he should have returned just to avoid a second game straight with Grossman. WHo is cheering for a new face in the coarch line???

[Eracer]

I just don't "get" the NFL. The Bears completely shut down Chris Johnson and LenDale White in week 10, forcing Kerry Collins to win through the air.

Then in week 11 they can't stop Ryan Grant? Grant is a decent enough RB, but he's no Chris Johnson.

[JEFF4i]

Its been that kind of year.

Ravens show some good colors, and then look what the Giants did to them.

[DaGris]

thats was hard to watch..........Da Bears really pissed off Da Gris!


6 games left,..need to win at least 4

[eclark53520]

Originally Posted by DaGris

thats was hard to watch..........Da Bears really pissed off Da Gris!


6 games left,..need to win at least 4

That was even hard to watch for me...i actually felt bad for the bears (does that make me a bad packer fan???).

They couldnt stop anything, through the air, on the ground, it didnt matter. Hopefully they can get their heads out of their asses and at least make a showing at their next game. I know they at least have a run defense, they might want to show it.

I dont know what happend, but it was very ugly showing by the bears.

[Pa Jayhawk]

Originally Posted by Eracer

Then in week 11 they can't stop Ryan Grant? Grant is a decent enough RB, but he's no Chris Johnson.

While he had a rough start to the season, Grant was one of the Premier RBs in the league last year and almost rushed for 1000 yards on only 7 starts and only 188 carries.

This year he is doing almost as well as Johnson and has what would appear to be a much tougher schedule. Johnson only has 100 yard games against Cin and KC.

Plus while it will only add more credence to your comments, GB also has a much better Offensive Line IMO. So while I am not sure I would say Grant is a better back, I would likely take him over Johnson in the current circumstances. Johnson has not been very good against caliber defenses. I also believe Grant has been better in each of the common opponents, which there have been a few.

So while I am not sure I would take Grant over Johnson if they both played for GB, I think I would likely take him almost every time that GB plays the same opponent as Tenn.

edit 1 - probably also made a difference that the GB game was a blowout, and they were feeding Grant the ball to run the clock.

[Eracer]

Originally Posted by Pa Jayhawk

While he had a rough start to the season, Grant was one of the Premier RBs in the league last year and almost rushed for 1000 yards on only 7 starts and only 188 carries.

This year he is doing almost as well as Johnson and has what would appear to be a much tougher schedule. Johnson only has 100 yard games against Cin and KC.

Plus while it will only add more credence to your comments, GB also has a much better Offensive Line IMO. So while I am not sure I would say Grant is a better back, I would likely take him over Johnson in the current circumstances. Johnson has not been very good against caliber defenses. I also believe Grant has been better in each of the common opponents, which there have been a few.

So while I am not sure I would take Grant over Johnson if they both played for GB, I think I would likely take him almost every time that GB plays the same opponent as Tenn.

edit 1 - probably also made a difference that the GB game was a blowout, and they were feeding Grant the ball to run the clock.

Johnson is a much more explosive runner. Both have the ability to run through their blocking, but Grant tends to get hung up at the second level, whearas Johnson is always a threat to break it. I'm not saying Grant is a bad RB - far from it. But he is not an elite back. Chris Johnson is the rookie of the year, and will go on to have a Hall of Fame career.

That's my story, and I'm sticking to it.

[Pa Jayhawk]

Again, I actually agree that Johnson is the better back, it just didn't surprise me Grant did better against the Bears or that he has done better against the other teams for which they have both played. In the same way it didn't surprise me that Emmitt Smith surpassed Walter Payton or Barry Sanders for most yards in the NFL even though I don't think Smith was even on the same level. His line left him holes you could have driven a freight train through, where I think Payton and Sanders had far more ability.

Rookie of the Year. Quite possible but he isn't running away with it right now. Not sure I like him more than Matt Ryan right now, but will likely go down to the wire.

Hall of Fame. May be a tall order because he relies so much on the Explosive Running and speed that you mention. Durability will likely be a big issue for the same things that make him fast. Harder for RB's like that to stay around that long.

[Eracer]

I've had arguments, er...discussions with friends before about Emmitt Smith, and whether he should be included in the list of top ten RB's of all time. Many people underestimate his ability to gain yards after the intial point of contact, and thus fail to appreciate what a good running back he really was. No, he didn't have the vision and shiftiness of a Barry Sanders, or the straight ahead power of an Earl Campbell, or the open field speed of an O.J. Simpson or Walter Payton. He had some of all three attributes, and was thus one of the best running backs who ever played the game, when measured against the metrics that matter - ability to get first down yardage, goal line yardage, and third down yardage. Emmitt Smith wasn't flashy, but he won games with his legs, and that's why he is in my top five all-time.

(Threadjack nearly complete...)

[Pa Jayhawk]

But would you put him on the same level RB as Payton or Sanders?

If you put Payton in a backfield with that caliber an Offensive line, I don't see anyone ever touching his record. Not sure how much Sanders would benefit, he just seemed like he abandoned his offensive line most of the time. Same scenario, you put Johnson on GB and Grant in Tennessee, and Johnson runs for more yards than Grant.

This is not to say to say Emmitt was not a good back, he just wouldn't have set the record had he played for say Arizona his entire career. Would have still made the Hall of Fame if he didn't face more injuries than he did as a result of being beat senseless.

Not to say he is not a good back. Definitely Top 10 and right around 5 in my book. I would probably pick Payton, Sanders, Brown, Dickerson and even maybe Simpson over him.

Really goes back to the initial topic of offensive line, for which most of these (not sure about Brown), did without a great line for the most part, and still showed roughly the same metrics that you mention.

If you just want to base it on metrics and ignore the fact of the line they run behind, then I am not sure I could say Grant is not a better back than Johnson in what he showed he was capable of last year or even this year. Further based on those metrics, it looks like Brandon Jacobs is superior to both, where IMO he should just be happy he is in the NFL.

edit 1 - Also need to consider Smith had a lot more stability on the team in other key offensive positions. QB, WR's, TE

[Eracer]

Originally Posted by Pa Jayhawk

But would you put him on the same level RB as Payton or Sanders?

If you put Payton in a backfield with that caliber an Offensive line, I don't see anyone ever touching his record. Not sure how much Sanders would benefit, he just seemed like he abandoned his offensive line most of the time. Same scenario, you put Johnson on GB and Grant in Tennessee, and Johnson runs for more yards than Grant.

This is not to say to say Emmitt was not a good back, he just wouldn't have set the record had he played for say Arizona his entire career. Would have still made the Hall of Fame if he didn't face more injuries than he did as a result of being beat senseless.

Not to say he is not a good back. Definitely Top 10 and right around 5 in my book. I would probably pick Payton, Sanders, Brown, Dickerson and even maybe Simpson over him.

Really goes back to the initial topic of offensive line, for which most of these (not sure about Brown), did without a great line for the most part, and still showed roughly the same metrics that you mention.

If you just want to base it on metrics and ignore the fact of the line they run behind, then I am not sure I could say Grant is not a better back than Johnson in what he showed he was capable of last year or even this year. Further based on those metrics, it looks like Brandon Jacobs is superior to both, where IMO he should just be happy he is in the NFL.

edit 1 - Also need to consider Smith had a lot more stability on the team in other key offensive positions. QB, WR's, TE

Brandon Jacobs is indeed a great RB - better than either (right now.)

You can't base any RB comparison on metrics alone - you know that.

And when you look at a team like the Packers, who do not play a RBBC offense, vs. a team like Tennessee, whose RB's split carries, then stats become very difficult to rely on. Game planning, situational offenses, heck, even weather all play a role in the numbers game.

All I know is that I believe Chris Johnson will have a better career than Ryan Grant, because he is inherently a better running back. I could be wrong. And I'm not saying you're wrong. Just stating my beliefs. Beliefs that may or may not be proven correct.