I have had it with the "Golden Bear"

[daddymack]

I just finished reading an article he wrote filled with back-handed attacks on the current game. Why can't he just realize he can't compete anymore and just move on. He had his day.

Thats why I respect Arnold Palmer so much more I guess. He don't seem nearly as bitter.

What I love to see happen-and we have the technology, is to have Tiger use some old style equipment and play a course Jack played in his prime. It would have to be a course that has not changed much. They could show footage of Jacks shots along with Tigers. I'd bet Tiger would clean his clock. I'm sure Jack would have more excuses,but it's either that or just shut up!

That would also make a great weekly show with different players.

How do I pitch this to the Golf Channel?

[phil048]

I guess the Golden Bear has earned his right to say anything he wants.

I think you would probably be surprised if Tiger had to play Jack with the old clubs, especially if we are talking about Jack in his prime. Tiger might be cleaning Jacks clock!!!

[Davebud]

I say Tiger would take him 3 out of 5 times.

[warbirdlover]

I say Tiger would take him 3 out of 5 times.

Davebud

I'd say 4 of 5...

[ualtim]

I read the same article and did not come away with the impression that Jack was trying to attack the current game. Jack has some issues with the modern equipment as it is making a lot of courses obsolete (which by the way is a bonus for him as he gets payed a lot of money to lengthen and/or adjust courses to meet the modern game.) Arnold Palmer has stated similar opinions on the modern golf ball and other aspects of the modern game, but Arnie just finds ways to express himself in a friendlier manner. Jack has always been pretty straighforward with his opinion whether you like it or not which tends to piss people off.

I tend to agree with both of them to an extent. Some kind of distance limit needs to be placed on the golf ball. Providing a standard golf ball for tournaments is not the way to go as it will tend to favor whatever competitors can take advantage of that ball's properties. Create a distance criteria in a contolled test environment (for example, say a 280 yard carry distance maximum, no wind, level ground.) You will still get long drives down wind and down hill, but it would allow golf courses to avoid being constantly changed/lengthened to keep up with the times. You still will allow the manufacturers and players the ability to design/play differnt styles of balls to meet their different style of play. Amateurs who are not competing in USGA/R&A tournaments who do not generate the club head speed to hit long distances can still play illegal golf balls for greater enjoyment of the game. They are illegal golf balls available today, so I do not see that market drying up if the rule were changed to accomodate a distance limitation.

Longer courses = more real estate = higher green fees. Golf is already too expensive and only getting worse. I would like to be able to afford 18 holes of golf when I retire.

[warbirdlover]

If they do this ball thing on the tour only and leave us alone I don't care. That's the only way golfers would put up with it.

[MCDavis]

I agree with wbl and tim on this one.

And, if Jack and Tiger played Jack's equipment from his heyday, I'd call it even money. Jack was Tiger in his day, and still has game IMHO...especially when challenged.

[dave.]

Nicklaus was longer in his day than Tiger.

Tiger isn't the longest,he is ONE of the longest,yet Nicklaus was 20 yards past every other long hitter and 30 past most others.When Tiger has won majors in 4 different decades then he will suspass Nickalus imho,and not before.Nicklaus and Hogan are perhaps the only 3 players in history that Tiger would not intimidate on the course.Niclaus had a crap short game because he never missed greens.No way would Tiger take Nicklaus 4 from 5,thats madness.Equal at best.But I bet Hogan would have kicked both their asses anyway,which is understandable considering he was the greatest player in history

And yes,Nicklaus has earned the right to have any opinion he wants.

[LyleG]

Add me to the list of people sick and tired of Jack and his ramblings. IMO he is a total hypocrit. Talking out his ass on of one side about how todays equipment is ruining the game yet lending his name and filling his wallet with a line of the exact same type of gear he is complaining about. I use to really like Jack. I still admire his game but have ZERO respect for him outside of his playing ability. Its time to STFU and move on.

[Sandy]

I must admit, I have absolutely total respect for the greats of the game, but no matter how big their legend is they have to sometimes accept that the game moves on and evolves.

I thought it was interesting watching Arnold Palmer over the course of this last tournament, and how at the start he was quite bright and cheery about how this course would kill bomb and gouge and make them play the traditional way, but by the final day he seemed to accept that players today just have a different way of playing and the players are different physical specimens to those in his day. He was still going on about limiting balls and wedge grooves though...

(For the British readers here, it very much reminds me of the interviews you used to see with George Best in his later years, where he simply refused to accept the game had changed or that any modern players had any merit at all, and how if he was still playing he'd show the all what a real great player was like. In reality he'd last about 20 minutes before he was worn out by the pace of the game, if he hadn't been substituted already for not tracking back!)

[limpalong]

Your idea of today's stars playing yesterday's equipment is an interesting one. There are many 'hickory stick' events played around the country each season. But, as far as TW playing a round with the same equipment Nicklaus played is virtually impossible. Yes, the clubs could be duplicated. But, you could not find a ball, today, made similar to the balls Nicklaus played. Not only was the ball construction of that era eons behind today's ball technology, but Nicklaus played some of the worst of the worst. Nicklaus' competitive spirit extended far beyond the course. For most of his prime playing days, he was the principle owner of MacGregor. Many of his tour wins were with the MacGregor ball. That ball, alone, would handicap most any of today's greats!

Nicklaus has always had difficulty accepting changes in club technology. Nicklaus was one of the leaders in pushing the PGA's banning of Ping irons that resulted in the 3-year litigation. Nicklaus was extremely outspoken about the metal wood when Gary Adams brought the first Taylor Made's to the tour. If it hadn't been for Adams seeing the handwriting on the wall and not having the money to go through what Karsten had been put through, he probably would not have sold to the French ski maker.

Nicklaus did great things for the game of golf. His competitiveness on the course will be remembered by an entire generation. The courses he designed will be enjoyed by millions. Yet, Jack will always be outspoken when it comes to technology.

Nicklaus' gospel has been to roll back the ball and roll back club technology. If we were forced to play with yesterday's ball and club technology, personal skill level would be the decider. The cream would come to the top and those who were not quite as skilled would not be able to compete at the top level. Palmer's theory, on the other hand, has been to allow technology to advance so even we weekend hackers can enjoy the game. Alter the course set up to challenge the top level players. I hold with the Palmer premise, but that does not mean Nicklaus is not without those who hold his argument sacred.

[ezra76]

I don't think he's bitter, it's just a fact that equipment has changed the game a ton. The thing is, it's still a level playing field because all pros have access to the same technology.

From what I've seen is Jack more emphasizing the ability of the players to hit 4 clubs less into the same holes as when he played. Of course I suppose Bobby Jones could have said the same thing in the 60's and 70's about Nicklaus... "Sandwedge??".

[BigJim13]

With the exception of Tiger's driver and fw woods, his irons are about equal in loft to the irons of Jack's time. I don't know what type of metals were used then vs now but I cant imagine they are all that much different. I could be wrong though.

[Rockford35]

Originally Posted by LyleG

Add me to the list of people sick and tired of Jack and his ramblings. IMO he is a total hypocrit. Talking out his ass on of one side about how todays equipment is ruining the game yet lending his name and filling his wallet with a line of the exact same type of gear he is complaining about. I use to really like Jack. I still admire his game but have ZERO respect for him outside of his playing ability. Its time to STFU and move on.

Agreed. The recent GD interview had me laughing out loud - literally.

R35

[mediaguru]

I actually think Jack would have beaten Tiger. The ball was much harder to control and the technology not as forgiving. I think with Tiger's swing speed he'd be all over the map from the tee.