Compare:equipment v instruction

[Sandpiper3]

I throw down a challenge to you:Put your swing up for analysis and myself and TMag will analyse it!.

Can I get in on that action?

Ill vouch for lessons. Almost every lesson but one has benefitted me 100%. Albeit the first lesson i wasnt very good or cooperative at 7 yrs old, but the guy was a bit of a jerk to me... neither here nor there.

Ill say i have a fair amount of natural talent, and have been blessed to be an extremely quick learner for anything physical (ie sports, not school). The only reason ive come down from a 5 to a 1 is from the lessons ive gotten with my coach, he's showed me things i'd never have even thought of, and he gets technical with me, and explains everything to me, which is exactly what helps me, i love to know all those little technicalities.

What i tihnk solarbear is saying about ppl not getting better, its because they dont try and understand, they just nod and go along, not really understanding what theyre actually doing, hence not getting any better/worst.

[solarbear88]

The guy is trolling

I don't mean to be. I was expressing an honest opinion, based on the fact that I know lots of people who have had golf lessons but none that benefitted from them. I apologize if you think I was just trying to rile people up. I usually don't post unless it is a hacker section, but something about the whole my friend took lessons and his scores have gone up vs me who has done very little and gotten down to 3 pushed my button. The guy should ask for his money back.

I don't know much about Manzella beyond watching some of his YouTube stuff, which was entertaining. I tried one of his drills once and it didn't work so I am a bit sceptical of him. I sometimes read his forum, the most interesting thread was on video recorders, usually it is just Brian promoting himself.

Nothing anyone has said here has really altered my opinion. I truly believe that there is something missing from most golf instruction, but not working in the industry like you guys I don't know what it is. Either there is some sort of mechanical misunderstanding or perhaps the guys who do the typical road of PGA apprenticeship do not make the best teachers.

I throw down a challenge to you:Put your swing up for analysis and myself and TMag will analyse it!.

To what end? I don't believe serious golf instruction can happen via the internet and I know already that I do not have the swing of a tour pro. I would have nothing to gain but a few churlish insults.

What i tihnk solarbear is saying about ppl not getting better, its because they dont try and understand, they just nod and go along, not really understanding what theyre actually doing, hence not getting any better/worst.

Yes I would agree with this. People need to have an understanding of their swing and the road map of progress the pro has in mind. I do not think this happens very often

[charnockpro]

Nothing anyone has said here has really altered my opinion. I truly believe that there is something missing from most golf instruction, but not working in the industry like you guys I don't know what it is. Either there is some sort of mechanical misunderstanding or perhaps the guys who do the typical road of PGA apprenticeship do not make the best teachers.

I believe there are two types of professionals, good players and good teachers, and sometimes there is a hybrid of both but very rarely, PGA instruction in the UK is of a high standard because of the in depth 3 year course plus numerous add on qualifications that can be gained to reach a* status also i beleive a teacher has to have his own ideas but also study ideas he doesnt agree with and draw conclusions from, i dont agree with Jim Hardy on some points but that is a point of conjecture!.



To what end? I don't believe serious golf instruction can happen via the internet and I know already that I do not have the swing of a tour pro. I would have nothing to gain but a few churlish insults.

I am by no means her to humiliate you, to that end i will pm you my personal e mail address and i will not comment on these pages, i am in the business of improving and helping, not goading and doing people down, as far as golf instruction over the internet, it is the way forward, especially with tour players able to e mail swings to a coach in a different country and even live streaming where possible.

Yes I would agree with this. People need to have an understanding of their swing and the road map of progress the pro has in mind.
Nearly a positive comment, but then>> I do not think this happens very often.

[LyleG]

Solarbear

Is your foot getting sore? You seem to have been chewing on it for almost 3 days now.

[solarbear88]

Solarbear

Is your foot getting sore? You seem to have been chewing on it for almost 3 days now.

I have been stewing over the subpar golf instruction I have recieved and witnessed for some time. Guess I just needed to get it off my chest. I didn't really want to insult anyone, just express my opinion that some of the stuff that is taught or maybe the process itself is screwed.

I am by no means her to humiliate you, to that end i will pm you my personal e mail address and i will not comment on these pages, i am in the business of improving and helping, not goading and doing people down, as far as golf instruction over the internet, it is the way forward, especially with tour players able to e mail swings to a coach in a different country and even live streaming where possible.

Thanks for the generous offer. I guess I am a believer of what an instructor I saw on YouTube said, "either the student trusts me or he doesn't, I don't see why someone would pay me for golf instruction then take tips from everyone they meet." I have been making terrific progress with my current pro and I trust the plan we got laid out.

As an example, I made the mistake the other day of trying to get someone to check my lies he proceeded to give me a 5 min lesson, I really didn't want, which got my swing all mixed up - I ended up with the bastard child of Hitting and Right Arm Swinging. I didn't really try to incorporate his advice but it mixed up my current pattern to no end.

[cypressperch]

very important. Starting out, it may be difficult to get the equipment right on the first try. So you end up with the wrong equipment to get instruction with and then switch if necessary. I suppose it might be smart to go with so-called "game improvement" stuff that has "forgiveness" built in for keeping morale as high as possible in the beginning stages which can be frustrating. A good, local pro could probably get you in the ball park about stuff like shaft, grip size, etc.

Instruction is like any other product or service, you can do everything right and still get a lemon. You can get lucky and find a truly great bargain out of the blue. I will say this much, when a course has more than one teaching pro, the head pro almost always gets paid more. At times, especially if that head pro plays a lot and works on his own game a lot, the last thing he REALLY wants to do is give instruction to beginners. Even though he is getting paid, he hates to look at those "swings" because it just might impact his own game. There might be one of those less paid pros on hand who is a little hungrier. This type needs income and needs to get a reputation as a good teacher to grow that base that provides that income. They are fresh from their training and often very motivated and enthusiastic. They will charge less and give more.

If the pro is an old fart that really loves the game, he will probably be the best teacher you can get. He loves the game. He loves to take a beginner and see them turn into golfers. He has a lot of experience. He has been doing many different things over the years rather than doing the same thing year after year, and as a result, he has knowledge that is useful. He has probably seen someone like you before, and this gives him a great starting point to help you get to where you want to be.

Law of Diminishing Returns. A beginner goes to a pro and in a few weeks goes from scoring 115 to 102. A three handicap goes to a pro and in a year his handicap is a one. The first situation is fairly easy to accomplish compared to the second though the number of strokes involved would have us to believe the first situation accomplished more. Beginners learn general things that can result in tons of quick improvement. Down the road, things get much more specific and the results are like fine strokes on the canvas rather than the broad, general strokes that are first applied. On those finer points, that old fart will come in handy. Yet, some of those young guns, especially when equipped with some technology, can do quite well. The main ingrediant is ENTHUSIASM! Knowledge alone just doesn't cut it.

Cypressperch

[artfulgolfer]

cypress, what a great post! although I've chosen the self-taught route, enthusiasm has been the key ingredient to learning...

and anyone, including myself, considering themselves self-taught is stretching the term a bit. Instead of seeking out a pro for instruction, I've not only studied some very helpful books, but have found that the right person with the right advice seems to show up at the range or putting green just when I need them. Fellow golfers have such a wealth of information to share if you're open to it. I've found that their suggestions are helpful more often than not.

I've had total strangers come up to me and suggest I try this or that, then find it totally fixes my problem. I learned later that one of these guys was an x-mini-tour player who grew up playing with Loren Roberts, but who let alchohol and drugs disrupt his career. Another, who helped me with my putting stroke, I later learned used to play on what is now the Nationwide Tour. He's now a mortgage broker and 2 handicap. Another young kid came up to me one day on the putting green and complimented me on my putting stroke, but suggested I try a slight adjustment on longer putts. He's now playing on the California Players Tour. I'm now 3-putting less .

My point is that instruction is not only valuable, but unavoidable. You just have to experiment for yourself to see what feels right for you and what doesn't. But don't reject instruction altogether just because you've seen others take lessons and not improve. Keep an open mind and enthusiastic attitude!

[charnockpro]

The main ingredient is ENTHUSIASM! Knowledge alone just doesn't cut it.

Totally agree with this statement, it is a mix of enthusiasm, knowledge, and well fitted equipment.

With reference to Solarbear, i am glad you have aligned yourself with a professional you can trust and you are working towards a common goal (So they are not all bad). Was the man who was helping you look at your lies a professional or a clubfitter? if not you should have politely declined his offer.

[solarbear88]

The main ingredient is ENTHUSIASM! Knowledge alone just doesn't cut it.

Totally agree with this statement, it is a mix of enthusiasm, knowledge, and well fitted equipment.

With reference to Solarbear, i am glad you have aligned yourself with a professional you can trust and you are working towards a common goal (So they are not all bad). Was the man who was helping you look at your lies a professional or a clubfitter? if not you should have politely declined his offer.

Yep, one lesson with this guy clearly indicated why all the 'just swing inside to out' lessons didn't work for me, as well as much of the other advice I had received.

Yes he was both a pro and a clubfitter. I asked him to have a look and see if they needed to be upright as I felt the toe of the club was digging in. They do, but I will have to live with them for the time being as I might get clubfit for a set of clubs later in the year.