Dave Pelz

[Borat]

Is he a mad man or not?
I have 2 of his books, the Short Game and Putting Bible. I've read them and they seem good but it goes against alot of the "regular teaching".

I will talk about the putting and the "Pils" stroke.
It makes sense, straight back and straight thru with no hand, wrist or forearm manipulation.
But does it work?

It feels unnatural and like you need to adjust the putter on the downstroke and time it exceptionally well to make clean contact with the face square - This is the important thing as Pelz will tell you. I typed in to find what other people thought about Pelz and some love him - yet others hate him saying that the stroke is unnatural and "Perfy" isn't anatomically correct. I find by making no forearm rotation the hands seem to cup on the BS and do the opposite on the DS/TS, it kinda feels like the forearms are rotating the opposite way to what they naturally go on every other shot. e.g. if you continue your BS until your arm is at 9 o'clock then the palm of your LH should be facing the sky, parallel to the floor. After re-reading the putting bible Stan Utley came on TV. He advocates the complete opposite - forearm rotation and on an inside to inside arc, like the 1plane swing but putting instead. At 9 o'clock your left thumb should be facing the sky.
Stan made a Pils stroke and said it's completely unnatural - you have to close the face on the BS and open it on the DS and Thruswing to keep it square, this ofcourse makes timing very important.

So who is correct? Both say the other one is unnatural.

Your thoughts/experiences?

[sandwedge]

I bought the short game bible a long time ago and thought it was all too scientific. I do like some of his ideas but I think you would need to spend so much time working on his system to make it work. I am more of a feel player. I don't always use the same club for the same situations. Depending on how I feel and how I am playing on a given day I may play the same shot with 3 different clubs 3 diffenerent ways. I like to use more creativity with my short game.

I haven't read the putting bible but I am familiar with his philosophy and I don't think it is as natural of a movement as what Utley teaches. With that being said I don't think there is a wrong way or a right way to putt. What works for one person might not work for someone else. See what feels best to you and keep practicing that way.

[warbirdlover]

I like alot of his ideas since they agree with what I've been doing all along...

[dave.]

Before I read one of his books I would rather kiss my grandma












with tongues

[Borat]

A variance of responses....

I think his scientific work is great - on pitchmarks etc. But what he tends to preach is "simple" in scientific terms, it makes sense but biologically (anatomically) I don't think it is correct - unless we were taught his method as children or when we started the game or we just naturally did it this way. I guess I'm just agreeing with what SW said, stick with what's right for you.

Personally I haven't changed my technique at all. I read the books and sometimes will practice the methods for a day or two but nothing ever feels right compared to my natural motion - too much thinking spoils my game. Bob Rotellas approach is the way forward IMO. The same with the full swing, the pro told me I had a good swing and whenever I try and change a slight bit of it I think too much and don't play the game. My swing tends to naturally evolve and get better the more I play, it becomes simpler...

Thanks for all the responses, it's much appreciated.

P.s. my putting stroke is natural, I tend to keep the putter face square to the arc but my arc is inside to out (which is generally like my full swing!) When putting I always feel like I set up wrong, either closed or open - this is definetely something I will work on!

[Farquod]

Pelz has been the subject of intense discussions here over the years. Here, for your amusement, is the penultimate Pelz thread. There are dozens of others if you do a search...including full discussions of both the short game and putting bibles.

Enjoy!

Spin-Balanced Balls?

[BigJim13]

Originally Posted by dave.

Before I read one of his books I would rather kiss my grandma












with tongues

Amen, I could not have said it better myself. I read the short game bible and tried some of his ideas. My short game was screwed for almost a year. It got so bad at one point that I gave up trying to chip and would gladly putt from as far off the green as 40 yds... it was the worst money I have spent on golf to date...

[dave.]

I respect the fact the guy has studied the game and he has shared his knowledge to great effect,and to great wealth,which isn't a criticism.To find a unique slot in golf instruction and make money at the highest level has to be respected and applauded.HOWEVER,I can't stand the scientific approach to the short game,its kills feel and just kills my game.I prefer the Seve approach using his shirt game VHS.It shows a genius at work,all feel and creativity.The technique is easy,lowest loft needed to get ball rolling,hands forward,weight forward,elbows loose,ball back etc etc,I don't see why the short game needs to get complicated.Still,each to their own

[Bravo]

Rather than spending money our our Season Opener, I am getting short game lessons from our staff...

As Farquod said, Pelz has been cussed and discussed here ad nauseam...he has plenty of believers and strong detractors as well.

Suffice it to say that he has a mathematical/logical approach to teaching the short game. For analytical thinkers, who tend to play mechanically, his book is probably well suited.

For 'feel players' - they will likely hate it....

Like the rest of golf, (with the exception of Ben Hogan's Five Lessons) I find the best way to learn is to get lessons. That is why these are on the way for me very soon as my short game is just awful.

[dave.]

I have had several short game lessons when my game has gone off and they have all said the same things

deceleration
clubhead not getting through the ball
using to much loft

[footballking732]

for me its all feel, thats why i absolutely hated his books...

it was a very boring read too, i couldnt get through more than 30 pages before i quit...

[footballking732]

Originally Posted by dave.

I have had several short game lessons when my game has gone off and they have all said the same things

deceleration
clubhead not getting through the ball
using to much loft

other than you dont have any natural feel, and gripping the club too tight, thats basically it right there..

i mean, your pro cant teach you fell, he can only show you to have an open stance and stuff like that...

[Farquod]

Originally Posted by footballking732

i mean, your pro cant teach you feel

Ah, but that was the whole point of the Dave Pelz Short Game Bible and the dead hands swing. Pelzy asserts that constant repetition with that same simple technique (and immediate accurate feedback of yardage on each hit) will give you such accurate feel that after a few months you'll know the exact yardage you've hit the ball as soon as it leaves your clubface.

[dave.]

I think Pelz has made a lot of money from stating the bleeding obvious...................go chip a lot your feel will improve.Riiiiiight,not exactly earth shattering but somehow he makes these obvious facts sound like its some sort of magic gift he is givign you.

[Farquod]

No argument, dude. He's the poster child for "practice makes permanent" so his point is, you better practice correctly.