I called the Cheaters bluff.....

[Bravo]

We've got two guys in our group who cheat....

1) Move the ball in the rough to get a good lie.
2) Don't post low scores.
3) Post inflated scores.

So after we played on Saturday morning, I laid out a set of Proposed Rules.

1) You call roll it in the fairway less than six inches.
2) Putts in the leather are good. Otherwise putt everything out.
3) Cannot touch the ball anywhere except on the green.
4) Post all scores immediately after play.

They seemed to accept it OK. We'll see how it goes over the next few months....

[Eracer]

Originally Posted by Bravo

We've got two guys in our group who cheat....

1) Move the ball in the rough to get a good lie.
2) Don't post low scores.
3) Post inflated scores.

So after we played on Saturday morning, I laid out a set of Proposed Rules.

1) You call roll it in the fairway less than six inches.
2) Putts in the leather are good. Otherwise putt everything out.
3) Cannot touch the ball anywhere except on the green.
4) Post all scores immediately after play.

They seemed to accept it OK. We'll see how it goes over the next few months....

How are you going to police the score entry? I know that the USGA requires that the club validate all scores. Are you going to insist that a foursome all go immediately to the computer after a round and watch each other enter scores - evey time. Seems to me that would be the only way to ensure that it's being done properly. I would also think that the cheaters would howl and scream about that.

[Bravo]

Originally Posted by Eracer

How are you going to police the score entry? I know that the USGA requires that the club validate all scores. Are you going to insist that a foursome all go immediately to the computer after a round and watch each other enter scores - evey time. Seems to me that would be the only way to ensure that it's being done properly. I would also think that the cheaters would howl and scream about that.

I am going to the GHIN website during the week and check to see if their scores are accurately entered....

[ualtim]

Of course, by agreeing to waive/adjust certain rules of golf, you are now a cheater yourself.

Rule 1-3: Agreement to Waive Rules results in disqualification of both sides in match play or disqualification of competitors concearned in stroke play.


It will be interesting to see if your guys still try to roll it in the rough even after you set the rules.

[Bravo]

Originally Posted by ualtim

Of course, by agreeing to waive/adjust certain rules of golf, you are now a cheater yourself.

Rule 1-3: Agreement to Waive Rules results in disqualification of both sides in match play or disqualification of competitors concearned in stroke play.


It will be interesting to see if your guys still try to roll it in the rough even after you set the rules.

It will indeed...I think those of us who follow OUR rules (admittedly liberal) are going to have to keep watch over them...

This really chaps my ass.

[cabinessence]

You must be really good friends with them for the situation even to have got this far.

[niblick]

Why would you let them alter their lie in the fairway? Playing the ball down is what golf is all about...

[Pa Jayhawk]

What this will translate too.

1) You call roll it in the fairway less than six inches. - Must mean since the rough is much worse than the fairway, you can move it more in the rough
2) Putts in the leather are good. Otherwise putt everything out. - Must mean it is time to ho a 9 foot putter
3) Cannot touch the ball anywhere except on the green. - Good thing they wear shoes, or use a club to move the ball
4) Post all scores immediately after play. - Including the 27 you took on the last hole and did not adjust with the ESC when you realize you have already lost.

They seemed to accept it OK. We'll see how it goes over the next few months.... [color=DarkRed]- Or at least they have become very good at better hiding the actions
[color=Black]------------

Good luck B, something tells me you have just given them support to justify their already guilty conscience.

I should mention we allow things like this in the leagues we play, and the sad part is that as much as I dislike it in competition, your choices are either not play, be at a disadvantage, or use the same advantages as others within their established rules. So as long as you all play by the same rules I don't see the harm, as long as the rules are well established. I figure if it is a matter of having no one wanting to play the competition without the additional rules, I guess my goals have always been to have fun and meet nice people are more important than the rules. For the most part everyone observes these rules to a tee, although they would be just as likely to observe the regular rules if given the opportunity. Although I am thinking that for someone who already consistently felt the need to do so in competition when it was not already a rule, this is just going to make them realize they now have or require more leeway. So they are likely going to just stretch the rules that much further to maintain the edge they were trying to achieve to start. I doubt someone who did this in a competition to start is going to have much of a problem taking it a step further every time you try and accommodate them

[sidewinder]

Originally Posted by Bravo

It will indeed...I think those of us who follow OUR rules (admittedly liberal) are going to have to keep watch over them...

This really chaps my ass.

Hold on....you have your own rules that, by your own admission, are more liberal than the USGA rules AND you post scores using those rules?

You don't see a problem with that?

S-

[Pa Jayhawk]

Originally Posted by sidewinder

Hold on....you have your own rules that, by your own admission, are more liberal than the USGA rules AND you post scores using those rules?

You don't see a problem with that?

S-

NO

Back to my last post. Would you prefer to play in a casual league or competition/Outing type setting with about 12-20 other people that are great company to be around and are primarily there to have fun, or would you rather play with yourself and in accordance to the USGA rules?

I joined golf to have have a nice time, and I can tell you while I abide by the USGA rules as much as I can, if it means playing in an organized format based on rules established by the people who set it up, which I do about 3 times a week and I my only primary reason to requiring a handicap, where in turn it may come at the expense of a few strokes to myself should I get in another competition, I can live with that expense. Personally the only time I have used my handicap is usually in a similar event. Now again if I play in a different competition, I will likely lose a few strokes in the process but to me that is a minimal price to pay.

I know, you are supposed to follow the rules, they are there for a reason, and I do so when I play normal events. But do you really think the normal weekend golfer should part with the fun of such of event for the sake of the rules?

I personally lose no respect for anyone who plays by established rules and does so with their handicap as long as they do not do so in a manner that will benefit them in another event. I fail to see how it would benefit them, but would instead hurt them. So why should someone have a problem with this if it was their intent to have fun.

I guess if I were on the tour I may feel different. Golf has always been a game of trust. For someone who has a pretty good understanding of the consequences of handicapping and is not doing it in a manner that will benefit them, why should I not trust their intent?

I guess you could look at it as my handicap more properly reflects how I play in the competitions for which I normally participate. As much as I don't like some of the rule changes, I guess the fun and camaraderie is worth more to me.

[SiberianDVM]

I have to agree with the others: The Rules of Golf, as *****ed up as they are, should be followed. The only local exceptions I could see being allowed, are the same ones the pros use concerning lift, clean, and place, if the fairways are muddy.

[Adam Pettman]

Originally Posted by SiberianDVM

I have to agree with the others: The Rules of Golf, as *****ed up as they are, should be followed. The only local exceptions I could see being allowed, are the same ones the pros use concerning lift, clean, and place, if the fairways are muddy.

I agree completly, the rules are there for a reason.

[sidewinder]

Pa Jayhawk,

I couldn't disagree with you more.

Based on your logic for scores used to calculate handicap index, any group-wide rule modifications are okay as long as it leads to improved scores.

USGA Rules, like them or not, are the rules of play when submitting scores for calculating handicap index.

S-

[HITaMANY]

Jay I see where you are coming from. At my home course I am not going to take an unplayable lie everytime my call comes to rest beside a root. We have a unspoken rule that you get to move it a club lenght away from the root not closer to the whole and it cannot change the type of lie. just away from the root. Example if you ball is against a root in the rough but the fairway is a club length away you arent allowed to place the ball in the fair way but you can move it way from the root. Lets face it I am a weekend warrior and cant afford to break and ding clubs on trees like tiger woods.

Also we dont submit scores for calculating handicap indexes.

[Pa Jayhawk]

Originally Posted by sidewinder

Pa Jayhawk,

I couldn't disagree with you more.

Based on your logic for scores used to calculate handicap index, any group-wide rule modifications are okay as long as it leads to improved scores.

USGA Rules, like them or not, are the rules of play when submitting scores for calculating handicap index.

S-

I guess that would depend on the intent for having a handicap index in the first place.

My comment was that although it may come at the expense of a few strokes to myself should I play in other competition, I did not see the harm if it comes down to giving up the reason I play the game. There is a difference between making an exception and saying you agree with why the exception was made.

I believe I further stated that I do not agree with rules changes to any degree. Although if my choices are making exceptions for the sake of having fun in the manor for which I picked up the game, or simply following the rules "For the good of the game" I am honest enough to say that I will make the exception as it better suits the intent for why I took up golf. If it were "For the good of the game", it may likely be better off and more prestigious without my handicap index.

Again, it depends on your intent for having a handicap.

It seems to be the consensus on here that the only reason people play golf is "For the good of the game". While that is admirable, it was not the reason I picked up the game, nor was it the reason I established my handicap.

I do believe my handicap properly reflects how I play for the competitions for which I participate