Bad new golfer in need of club advice

[jerryopela]

Hello everybody, I am the person that all of your bad golfer that slows you down horror stories are about. SORRY. I am new to the game and have played about 7 times. My father in law is big in to golf and has given me some help at the driving range, so I understand the basics. (Notice I say I understand them and not KNOW them). My scores for the 7 rounds I have played are all in the mid 120s. I know overall it is bad, but for a new golfer I guess it is average. Well on to my question...



Right now I am using my dads 30 year old Ram clubs. Steel shafts, and the woods have actual wood heads, so obviously I am in the market for new clubs. From talking to friends and salespeople I need to get something fitted as I am 6'5" (+1" shaft +4 loft is what I am told). What I need to know is at my skill level (or even in general) is it worth it to get name brand clubs over clones. I have been looking at the clones online and they are about 1/2 the price and say they buy from the same manufactures and are just as good. Should I look at them as a viable option? Any recommendations for clubs would be appreciated.



Also, Would it be better to take real lessons before I buy clubs to know how my swing will develop, or should I buy clubs first so I learn on a set of clubs that fit me.



Thanks for the help...



Jerry

[bdcrowe]

Release the hounds....




Actually, you will hear varying replies and opinions in 2 distinct categories-- those who feel clones are OK, and those who feel that clones infringe on OEM property rights. Most all will agree that component (different from clones) manufacturers are OK.

My opinion, totally skirting the infringement issues, is that you need to research the manufacturers and know who you are buying from. There are few reputable "component" manufacturers and MANY true clone/look-alike manufacturers. The component companies are usually legit and respectable (some have models that perform similar to and resemble OEM models)-- names such as Golfsmith, Wishon, even Integra and Acer have proven excellent in my book. Knockoffs are usually made to lower standards with higher tolerances and are basically crap. Buyer beware.

[jerryopela]

Thanks for the response bdcrowe. I think I am/was a little confused on a clone vs. a component club. What I was looking at is not a club with the same brand name as a top manufacturer but on a lesser club (CLONE right?), What I was looking at were clubs from sites such as www.diamondtour.com and www.pinemeadowgolf.com, like the Tour + clubs (specifically) or like acer/integra/etc.. that you were referring to. I guess these are component clubs right?

Thanks for the clarification.

[bdcrowe]

There are varying degrees of "clone" some of which blur the lines. Look at it this way, and this is usually a decent way of making a judgement call on it...

The Acer XP head is VERY similar to the Callaway X-16 iron. Is it a knockoff or a clone? Well, a very brief glance and you know that Acer makes it. Look at the Tour +. Nowhere on the club or in the description will you ever find who actually produces this club. Further, they have some T that vaguely resembles the Nike swish that they are trying to capitalize on. My view is that they produced this club on looks, with little care for quality in materials or tolerance, Sorry. But I've seen this all too often.

For an even more blatant view on this, look at the drivers. The T-5. R5XXX? The Tour + "Torch", or Nike Ignite? If a company is concerned more with getting buys on recognition, how much did they worry about quality? Now, look on the same page. You see Integra's drivers. Many of them are designed on the same priciples, weight distributions, material compositions, etc... as other OEMs, but you can see right off that Integra makes them. Different paint schemes. This is Integra's take on the concept and they are hanging their name on it. I've owned many Integra clubs, play the Graph-Ti right now, and think they are great.

Anyway, just know the manufacturer and distributor before you buy.

[CKGuY914]

As someone who is 6'5" i don't recommend you just grab some clubs off the racks whether they're knockoffs or not, trying to play with a set of clubs that doesn't fit you physically significantly can develop some bad habits in your swing.

You can try going to places like Golfsmith where you can fit and customize your own set of Snake Eyes. Not only it'd be a good experience building your own clubs, it's also relatively cheap for a set of quality clubs.

[obagain]

I think you may be confuse on +4 loft, I think they were telling you lie not loft.

I firmly believe in oem clubs, of course I am biased because I sell used oem clubs
You should get fitted from a professional, it could easily take 10 strokes off your game being that tall. You would have to bend over so far that you are loosing all your power.
If you have any questions please feel free to pm or email me.

[Bravo]

While I am 6 feet tall, I have played with tall golfers all my life. 6'5", 6'7". You are correct that you must be custom fitted. All of my friends of this height have clubs that are upright and long..

(I too have been custom fitted even though I am of average size)
A person of average height has a reasonable chance that they could buy standard loft and lie clubs and have a decent chance of hitting the ball well. You do not.

For these reasons, I think you need to prepare yourself economically to pay more for your equipment. I don't mean to be blunt - but golf is a very expensive game.

I think going to a custom clubfitter in your area and explaining your budget and abilities is the best way to go. A good clubfitter will sell OEM clubs as well as good quality component clubs. He can show these to you and you can make a better decision.

An advantage to OEM clubs is the resale market value. Clubs made by the well known (publicized) OEM companies such as Titleist, Callaway, Ping, Cobra etc. all have some sort of reasonable resale value on eBay. Most of us here on this board have bought used (or new items) on ebay very satisfactorily. Good quality Component clubs also have a resale value on ebay or in a used equipment shop. The resale value of clones is low.

Additionally, the used market for a set of 4 degree upright/+1 inch clubs is going to be poor. Therefore your ability to sell a set that you no longer want is going to be tough. If you bought expensive OEM clubs, the shafts could always be removed and you could sell the heads. Just be aware of this factor. Once again, because of your height, you have an unfortunate economic disadvantage.

This is the world's greatest game. Find a clubfitter and get clubs that fit you properly and that you can afford by an OEM or Component manufacturer. Then GET Lessons - a series of lessons by a good teaching pro. You have a great chance now to learn the game properly before you get bad habits.

And go get fitted now - because you could hurt your back swinging a standard set of clubs because you have to crouch in a weird way to get the club on the ball.

Good luck

[jc@bg]

I agree with Bravo. In all likelihood you will ingrain poor swing habits if not out and out injure yourself with "standard" clubs. At the same time, the last thing I'd want to do if I were you (and I'm not you, so YMMV) is spend $1000 or more on my first attempt at a well-fitting set of clubs. Because it's unlikely (though not impossible) that you'll find a long set of clubs with very upright lies somewhere in your locale that you can demo before purchasing, logical options include getting a respected component set custom built for you (if you got zero on retail, you wouldn't lose any more than you would on custom-built OEM clubs on trade-in) and getting just a few clubs made for you as a trial. For example, if you see an iron clubhead that looks good to you, explore getting just one or two of them custom built to fit you and trying them out for a while before taking the big plunge. Components are what we like to call in IT services "hot swappable," meaning that even if you try a certain iron head and don't like it, it's easy to have the shafts pulled and re-use the shafts in other heads--or vice versa. When you start down the trail of custom-assembled golf equipment, there are SO many possibilities you can experience....

[Augster]

I myself am 6'4". I play 1" long and 2 degrees upright. About standard.

The problem with custom fitting is that, since you are just starting out, if you plan on getting better, your swing is going to change. When you change your swing, most of the time you will need to be "re-customfitted". i.e. You are custom fit to that particular swing. If your swing changes, your fitting may change also.

That said, 1" long, 2 degrees upright is a good place to start for your height. If you are planning on making some changes to your swing, buy forged clubs. That way you can have them easily altered if your swing changes necessitate equipment changes.

With that out of the way, I would most likely recommend name brand clubs. Since you are starting out, you may not like your first set, or your second, or even your third. By purchasing name-brand you will have trade-in value with your clubs and it won't cost you as much for the next set.

Myself though, I make swing changes all the time. I'm always trying to get better. So I built myself a set of Snake Eyes irons so I can tinker with them in my shop when a swing change changes the loft and lie requirements to fit my new swing.

But if you just want to get out and play every so often, get yourself some OEM cavity back clubs, a little longer and a little upright, and get a decent driver. Then have fun!

[GunnerMan]

I have XTP custom made woods for me. I want the man to make me some irons to as I love the woods as I am using y first set. Anyways I have a question to attach here. What is the maximum safe height for standard clubs?

[jerryopela]

Thanks for the good advice everybody. It is nice to see a forum where a beginner can get some honest feedback and no flaming. You are a friendly group! I have decided against the clone clubs based on your opinions and experiences. This weekend I plan to go to Edwin Watts and look at their OEM clubs and then go over to Orlando to look at GolfSmith OEM and snake eyes clubs, and see what they each recommend. Im sure I will be back with more questions after that. Any last minute words to make sure I don’t get taken besides just common sense.

I will let everybody know how it went on Sunday.

[jc@bg]

Last minute words of advice: if you have a budget, stay within it, at least for the moment (you can always go back later if you change your mind), and if you see something that looks very good but you haven't heard of it, go back and do your research before purchasing. Lots of equipment you or I may not be familiar with is still good equipment. With so much honest feedback available on the net, anything that NOBODY has recommended is likely to be cr**. Who had heard of Nickent before this year? I hadn't, but now their hybrid irons are widely considered among the very best in golf, and their prices are very low to boot! Finally, don't be swayed (necessarily) by the sales line: "We sell tons of these." What they sell is heavily influenced by what they push, which has little bearing on you or your game. Good luck.

[jerryopela]

Here is my latest update and question. I went out to Edwin Watts today and was properly measured for clubs, I measured at 4 deg upright and 1" + shaft, but swinging the clubs I likes the 1.5" shaft better and hitting at 5 deg upright. the salesman / pro recommended 4 deg upright if I plan on taking lessons to improve my game and get the longer shaft because it felt better and golf is a game of feel, so I think that is what I am going to do. He had me swing several sets of clubs but the two that felt the best were the 1) Ping G2s and 2 Titleist 804.OS. Unfortunately they were both around $750. I was hoping to find something similar in the $500 range. Any thoughts?

I was looking online at the SnakeEyes Viper Ti- heads (golfsmith), but have not swung them. Does anybody have experience good or bad with these clubs?

[MBeachGirl]

Here is my latest update and question. I went out to Edwin Watts today and was properly measured for clubs, I measured at 4 deg upright and 1" + shaft, but swinging the clubs I likes the 1.5" shaft better and hitting at 5 deg upright. the salesman / pro recommended 4 deg upright if I plan on taking lessons to improve my game and get the longer shaft because it felt better and golf is a game of feel, so I think that is what I am going to do. He had me swing several sets of clubs but the two that felt the best were the 1) Ping G2s and 2 Titleist 804.OS. Unfortunately they were both around $750. I was hoping to find something similar in the $500 range. Any thoughts?

Ebay!Ebay, ebay, definitely!

[jerryopela]

Ebay!Ebay, ebay, definitely!

But could I get them fitted? I was lead to believe they were ordered to my size from the factory.