How hazardous is your course ?

[Dave Ireland]

Well another golf year has passed, and I sit at 8.1 having been cut .6 for last Sunday's victory. Anyway I start looking thru all my returned scores for the year and start thinking of what could've been. Rule 19.8 compares I think to ESC stateside whereby your score is adjusted in cases of monumental f**k ups ... case in point in a round of 89 I played the 4 par 5's +15 - two 10's, 8 and a 7, I was 2 over for the other 14 holes - the 89 became an adjusted 82.

So how hazardous is my course - if rather than OB I just skied it 1 fairway west, instead of a lake we had a fairway bunker, how much lower would I be now - it's subjective I know but here's the hazards on my course.

#1 -OB, #2 Lake, #5 OB/Lake, #6 OB, #7 OB/Lake, #8 OB/Lake, #9 OB, #12 OB, #13 Lake, #14 (bastard) OB/Lake, #15 OB & #18 OB/Lake

I suppose the point will be made that if yer down the centre stripe these hazards are meaningless, but doncha think that when yer operating with yer B game I've a lot of black spots to contend with ??

[Fourputt]

I guess that part of it is how close to the fairway are the hazards? My course if described like that would sound like a minefield, and it can be if you stray too far, but it isn't as tight as some courses I've played.

#1 - Lake left
#2 - Native left and right
#3 - Native left and right
#5 - Native left and right
#6 - Lake and OB left and native right
#7 - OB left and native right
#9 - Lake and thick trees left and thick trees right
#10 - Thick trees through dogleg on right (easily reachable)
#11 - Native left and hazard right
#12 - Native left and hazard right
#14 - Native left and right
#15 - Native left
#16 - Native and hazard left and native right
#18 - Trees left and hazard through dogleg right

The native rough from early summer on is only marginally playable with your best lies... more often unplayable and often you won't even find your ball in the 2 - 3 foot deep grass. A ball hit toward the native grass automatically requires that you play a provisional.

My closing index is 13.2 after a very slow decline through the second half of the season.

[Dave Ireland]

Originally Posted by Fourputt

I guess that part of it is how close to the fairway are the hazards? My course if described like that would sound like a minefield, and it can be if you stray too far, but it isn't as tight as some courses I've played........

Yeah good point Fourputt ... the Lakes are definetely in play as the run alongside the fairways & greens.. OB's are slightly more subjective as to how much the come into play .. but certainly 4 of the holes require a marginal mishit and yer reaching into the ball bag, coupled with the fact that the prevailing wind/breeze is a crosswind bring to mind the reality tv series "When good shots go bad" .. lol thanks for the input

[Scotty01292]

1.OB Right/Gorse left
2. Gorse short, left & right, OB Long
3. OB Left & Long, Gorse Right
4. Nope
5. Gorse Left, Pot Bunker right
6. OB Right & Long
7. Gorse left
8. Lake right, OB Long
9. Nope
10. Thick rough right & left
11. OB Right, Thick rough left
12. OB Left/Long
13. Thick rough left, Gorse right
14. OB/Thick rough right
15. OB Left & Long
16. Gorse left, right & long, OB Right
17. OB Left, Gorse left
18. OB Right, Gorse left

Some holes it comes into play on others, but it's always there...

[lamebums]

Originally Posted by Dave Ireland

Well another golf year has passed, and I sit at 8.1 having been cut .6 for last Sunday's victory. Anyway I start looking thru all my returned scores for the year and start thinking of what could've been. Rule 19.8 compares I think to ESC stateside whereby your score is adjusted in cases of monumental f**k ups ... case in point in a round of 89 I played the 4 par 5's +15 - two 10's, 8 and a 7, I was 2 over for the other 14 holes - the 89 became an adjusted 82.

So how hazardous is my course - if rather than OB I just skied it 1 fairway west, instead of a lake we had a fairway bunker, how much lower would I be now - it's subjective I know but here's the hazards on my course.

#1 -OB, #2 Lake, #5 OB/Lake, #6 OB, #7 OB/Lake, #8 OB/Lake, #9 OB, #12 OB, #13 Lake, #14 (bastard) OB/Lake, #15 OB & #18 OB/Lake

I suppose the point will be made that if yer down the centre stripe these hazards are meaningless, but doncha think that when yer operating with yer B game I've a lot of black spots to contend with ??

That's nothing. My home course is actually a 54 hole complex, with three courses. Pioneer's the easiest, but Willows and Fox Run are brutal. So without further ado, here goes.

Pioneer:
#3 - Lake, OB left and long
#4 - Lake, cabbage left
#6 - Lake
#7 - OB left
#8 - OB left
#9 - OB left
#10 - OB right (driving range actually)
#11 - cabbage left (assume your ball is lost)
#12 - Cabbage left, OB if too long
#13 - Lake
#14 - Cabbage Left
#16 - Woods Left, Cabbage Right


Willows:
#1 - Woods Left, Woods Right
#2 - Lake
#3 - OB right
#4 - Woods left, OB right
#5 - Lake
#6 - OB right
#7 - 2 lakes, Woods right
#8 - Woods Right (long and right lands you in the 9th fairway but short and right...and you're gone.)
#9 - Cabbage Left, Woods Right
#10 - Bottom of a huge valley on the left...
#11 - Woods Left
#12 - Woods Left, Woods Right
#13 - OB Left, Woods Right
#14 - Woods Left, Cabbage Long, Woods Right
#15 - Cabbage Right, Cabbage Left, Lake
#16 - Woods Long/Right, Cabbage Left
#17 - Lake
#18 - OB left, OB right (driving range)

Fox Run
#1 - Woods Left
#2 - Woods Left, Woods Right, Cabbage Long
#3 - Woods Left
#4 - Woods on all sides. If you're short you're in a ravine.
#5 - Woods Right (fairway slopes left to right)
#7 - 200 yard shot across a valley. Woods Left, Lake far Right.
#9 - Fairway about 20 yards wide. Woods Left, Creek Center, Cabbage Right.
#10 - Lake, OB right
#11 - Woods Left, Woods Right
#12 - 200 yard par 3 across a ravine. Woods on all sides.
#13 - Woods Right
#15 - Woods Right
#16 - Woods on all sides
#17 - Woods Left, Woods Right, Lake
#18 - Woods Left, Woods Right, Lake...and then more woods and more lake.

"Woods" can be taken to automatically assume a lost ball. Cabbage is usually played as a lateral. The advantage is you won't have to hear cars and have nearby condos on Fox Run. Disadvantage is you lose more balls. But there's wild deer, turkey, and so on running around the place.

Also on Fox Run there's actual physical danger - if you don't watch it there's a good chance of running the cart off the path and getting yourself killed. Examples of this are at 2:03 and 4:01 in the golf movie I made a while back.




Now everyone knows how I can make big numbers, especially with duck-hooks off the tee.

Edit: I had a 21 this year, as well as a 16, two 15's, a 14, and two or three 13's...

[West Coast Duffer]

I play a course that really isnt crazy hard with water or OB but there are so many friggin trees with large leaves and its like the course is blankated with brown and green leaves. You can be 1ft off the fairway and loose your ball, and this will happend several times in a round.

[Pa Jayhawk]

Absolutely treacherous compared to any others I play, and is what I like about the course. Fairways are 20 yards wide, rough is maybe another 10 on each side, then it is forest. While it took me until about September until I shot in the 80's on this course for the first time this year, I have shot in the 80's 8 of the last 9 away courses I have played. Last year it took me until November, then I preceded to do so 7 of 10 rounds. While from the Whites it plays less than 5600 yards with a 135 slope, that will in fact add a couple strokes to the course handicap, I really do not feel it is reflective of how tough the course really is just by adding a few strokes to the course handicap. While I will lose anywhere from 2-9 golf balls on any given day on this course, I will only lose maybe 1 every 2-3 rounds anywhere else.

I play anywhere else, and I feel like I am playing at an airport when I see how wide the fairways are in relation. You hit a ball 20-30 yards wide you may find it in another fairway, or in some cases in your own fairway. You hit it 20-30 yards wide here and you would not even waste time looking for it, as if you were lucky enough to find it, you would be so deep in the woods you would need a chainsaw just to be able to see the fairway. Most course you may be punished for a bad shot with a bad lie or obstructed shot to the green, here you will simply have a lost ball most of the time and get to try it again.

[ThatCanadianGuy]

1) OB right
2) OB right, yellow staked ditch crossing the fairway.
3) Par 3 woods left, right, and long
4) Ocean Right however it takes a terrible shot to even reach the beach rocks, but I have seen it done. Woods left and long. Lateral ditch on right.
5) OB right, trees right
6) Ocean again, same situation as number 4. Woods right.
7) Lake right, woods right, woods left.
8) lateral left, OB left, trees left, Lateral right, OB right, Trees right and long.
9) Lateral left, Ob left, Trees left, OB right, Lateral right, trees right.

It's not to bad, the main rule is "don't go right" and you're fine.

[Lil_Huth]

I have no hazards other than OB trees on my course. But every hole on my course has OB trees left, right or both. It is a 9-hole course and I think it has both sides OB on 6 holes. Then the other 3 are either left or right OB.

[limpalong]

The hazards unique to a specific course should play into the USGA slope rating of that course. If your course is made more difficult because of the hazards, it should have a higher slope rating. Hence, you should score higher on that course than one with a lower rating and all should even out. But, that's a perfect world.

Our course has lots of trees and quite narrow fairways. We do not have a lot of sand. Water only comes into play on a couple of holes. Over the past 5 years, over 200 large Cottonwood trees have come off this course due to wind storms/lightning. Yet, if you play this course and are told that, it is impossible to see where 200 large trees could ever be placed. Our course is one that you quickly learn when a smart a** states that trees are 90% air, you quickly reply that so are screen doors. The trees, while not marked as hazards, add a signigicant degree of difficulty to the course.

#1: Par 5, slight dogleg left. Left and right are completely tree lined. Push the ball... or hit the slightest fade off the tee and you are in trouble along the right. Hit a smother hook and you'll never find the ball in the trees on the left. If you can't hit a controlled draw off the tee, step to the box with an iron in your hand.
#2: Par 3, short, straight. Trees along the right side rule out any draw. The front right side of the green has a sand trap. The shot is a perfectly straight ball or a fade. Double cross the fade a tad and you're in the trap, right.
#3: Par 4, dogleg left. Trees along the left. A sand, waste area follows the right side up to the 150 yard marker. From 150 on in, trees line both sides. The play is a 3-wood to the fairway. If you try to hit a driver and catch it well, you can run through the fairway into the sand waste area. From there, you're behind the trees to the green. The only shot from the waste area is a huge cut.
#4: Par 4, hard dogleg left. Trees line the right side. Tall native grasses line the left and that is staked as a lateral hazard. Again, the shot is a long iron or 3 wood off the tee. You have to hit something 205 to 215 to get past the dogleg and see the green. The only tree on the left is at about 140 out and is huge. If you're not past this tree, you will make all sorts of rude comments as you attempt to negotiate around it. Whatever your skill level, the tree usually wins!
#5 and #6 are straight away Par 4's. Both are tree lined and fairly narrow. Most can hit driver and stay out of trouble. A driver on 6 should put you inside 100 and leave you a good chance at bird.
#7: Par 3. Straight away with tall native grasses along both sides. The grass areas are staked as lateral hazards. A large sand bunker lies on the left side of the green. One tree on this entire hole sits right along the right side, preventing any draw shot. Again, you need to hit a nich straight shot to the green.
#8: Par 5. Long, long double dogleg hole. Trees and native grasses line the entire left side. The length of the hole is staked lateral on the left. The right is mostly tree lined. You need to hit a big power fade off the tee. A straight shot or a draw puts you in trouble left. A long fade will leave you a good shot to the hard dogleg left before the hole. Hit a fade 270 off the tee and you'll have just under 200 to get past the dogleg before the hole. Make it past the trees at the dogleg and you're left with about 140 in. If you don't make the dogleg, you will have to hit a draw around the dogleg to have a chance at par. This hole takes three solid shots to have any chance to reach the green.
#9: Par 4. Dogleg right. Trees line the right side. A river runs along the left side. Hook the tee shot and it's in the river. Hit a long, straight ball and it'll run through the fairway into the trees. Try to cut it too soon around the dogleg and you're in the trees on the right.
#10: Par 5. Dogleg left. Takes only 185, or so, to get past the corner from the tee. You have to hit a draw of the hole really gets long. The young flatbellies can try to go over the trees and cut the dog leg. Miss and it's costly. Hit it over the trees and you're 150 out on a long Par 5 which gives you a good chance at eagle. The entire hole is tree lined both left and right.
#11: Par 4, straight with only a slight dogleg right. Trees line the left side, but the left is open... except for a sand trap about 210 off the tee.
#12 and #13 are both Par 4's, straight and fairly wide open.
#14: Par 3 across a lake.
#15: Par 4 slight dogleg left. Trees run the entire left side with the fairway sloping towards the trees. Hit too much a draw and the ball will find it's way to the "valley of sin" that runs along the base of the trees. The right is a sand waste area that is difficult to play from.
#16: Par 4, slight dogleg right. Native grass area staked as a lateral runs along the left. Sand waste area runs along the right. Bail out right to stay out of the native grass and another long cottonwood will block your shot to the green.
#17: Par 3, short... straight. Sand bunkers in front of the green and to the left of the green. The green slopes away from the tee. Hit too much club to assure clearing the bunkers and you'll be off the back side of the green chipping back towards the bunkers.
#18: Par 5, dogleg right. Bailout area to the left up until about 250 off the tee. Trees line the right side and the left from 250 off the tee on to the green. Try to hit a fade/cut off the tee and you'll be in the trees right. It is difficult to play this hole too far left. The shot is a nicely executed draw off the tee that gets past the dogleg. Then it's a good fairway wood and a short iron on in. Miss either of the first two shots on this hole and you're looking a snowman straight between the eyes.

Stagg Hill Golf Club - Home if you want to see the trees I'm talking about.

[Jules150]

My course OB left and right on every hole expect 10 and 18, they have have OB right Then there are hazards on 2, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12, 13, 14, 16, 17, and 18. Hit them straight here.

[Pa Jayhawk]

limpalong,
I didn't play Stagg hill, but this year Colbert Hills I believe was actually my better rounds of the year based on the slope and toughness of the course. Granted I didn't play off the tips, but can I still say that I shot one of my best round son one of the 40 hardest courses in the USA.

Obviously it was one of my 8 of 9 rounds in the 80's.

[emc]

Originally Posted by ThatCanadianGuy

1) OB right
2) OB right, yellow staked ditch crossing the fairway.
3) Par 3 woods left, right, and long
4) Ocean Right however it takes a terrible shot to even reach the beach rocks, but I have seen it done. Woods left and long. Lateral ditch on right.
5) OB right, trees right
6) Ocean again, same situation as number 4. Woods right.
7) Lake right, woods right, woods left.
8) lateral left, OB left, trees left, Lateral right, OB right, Trees right and long.
9) Lateral left, Ob left, Trees left, OB right, Lateral right, trees right.

It's not to bad, the main rule is "don't go right" and you're fine.

I love those courses, never have a problem with the right hand side

[emc]

Originally Posted by emc

I love those courses, never have a problem with the right hand side

My ocurse is kinda strange, not much OB about the place but the trees are 40 yards apart on all holes, and they're a barsteward to get out of. This makes the SSS kind of screwed up, because I think it's a harder course than that

[limpalong]

Originally Posted by Pa Jayhawk

limpalong,
I didn't play Stagg hill, but this year Colbert Hills I believe was actually my better rounds of the year based on the slope and toughness of the course. Granted I didn't play off the tips, but can I still say that I shot one of my best round son one of the 40 hardest courses in the USA.

Obviously it was one of my 8 of 9 rounds in the 80's.

Yea, but you "eastern dudes" come in here and shoot lights out. You guys do nothin' but run syndicates, like Tony Soprano, and play golf. So... I wouldn't have expected any less!!

Actually, up until I have played so much these last few weeks, my best rounds were at Colbert. A couple of years ago, I played Stagg and Colbert on a fairly rotational basis. Shot far better at Colbert than at Stagg even though the slope ratings would make one think otherwise. The secret to Colbert is playing the set of tees that fits your game and keeping it out of the gunch. The fairways are fairly wide and no trees come into play during the entire round and the greens are quite large. There is not a lot of shot shaping required. Just hit a consistent ball and land it in the short grass.

Stagg, however, requires some work off the tee. If you can only it the ball one way.... right to left or left to right... you will struggle. The fairways are narrower, the greens much smaller, and the trees seem to have personal vendettas against ME!! They're everwhere.... they're everywhere....

We'll get you back out here and give you the opportunity to play both courses so you can see what you're missing by not moving back to "God's Country"!!!!!