Swing Video Experiment

[charnockpro]

Will we be able to see you make contact with a ball?? it is very interesting to see how the human body reacts to a golf ball in front of it!, the results could tell us more about your ball flight and general direction, whenever i practice i always give a signal to the camera to identify where and how it flew, this makes a diagnosis of what went wrong easier, Does that flip not result in injured wrists or sore forearms? because it looks damn painful to hold on!

[swingsmooth]

Originally Posted by Eracer

Cool dog!

The one thing that stands out is excessive hand rotation, with a complete breakdown of wrist angles through impact.

The other thing that stands out is raising the left heel and replanting it in a totally different location than address. I suggest working on making your weight shift back without lifting your left foot. I'd consider slowing your tempo down just a touch.

[David Hillman]

Originally Posted by swingsmooth

The other thing that stands out is raising the left heel and replanting it in a totally different location than address. I suggest working on making your weight shift back without lifting your left foot. I'd consider slowing your tempo down just a touch.

I had never really noticed that action with the left heel before. I mean, I knew I picked it up, but never paid much attention to the relocation. The tempo, OTOH, is something I've been aware of for a long time; it creeps faster when I know I'm being watched. That said, when I consciously slow the tempo, at least with the driver, I tend to hit pop-up slices.

Originally Posted by charnockpro

Will we be able to see you make contact with a ball?? it is very interesting to see how the human body reacts to a golf ball in front of it!, the results could tell us more about your ball flight and general direction, whenever i practice i always give a signal to the camera to identify where and how it flew, this makes a diagnosis of what went wrong easier, Does that flip not result in injured wrists or sore forearms? because it looks damn painful to hold on!

I am cutting some video from the range as we speak, and will post it shortly. No injuries at all ( well, bad knees from a youth misspent playing basketball on asphalt ), and no soreness of the extremities, either. I do suffer blisters on my hands if I hit more than a bucket without a glove, but that's all. I tried some experiments after watching a few other videos of guys with big high finishes, but I just cannot get there comfortably. It pains my back and shoulder to try and get to that T formation with the club and spine.

Down the line, hitting 2 irons
Down the line, hitting 3 wood off the deck

[David Hillman]

Bump. A grand total of 1 person apparently watched those videos, despite at least 3 asking for them, so I'm guessing they may have missed that update.

[Eracer]

No pre-shot routine. No setup to the ball. Your posture is horrendous. You seem to be just flailing away without any real purpose. And perhaps you might try taking a bit better care of the range. Instead of hitting shots from a 10 sq. ft. area, try putting each successive ball down at the back of the last shot's divot, thus creating one single, long, easy to repair divot, instead of fifty divots scattered all over your hitting area.

Sorry if I sound harsh, but those are my thoughts.

[charnockpro]

I am cutting some video from the range as we speak, and will post it shortly. No injuries at all ( well, bad knees from a youth misspent playing basketball on asphalt ), and no soreness of the extremities, either. I do suffer blisters on my hands if I hit more than a bucket without a glove, but that's all. I tried some experiments after watching a few other videos of guys with big high finishes, but I just cannot get there comfortably. It pains my back and shoulder to try and get to that T formation with the club and spine.

The finish of your golf swing is brought about by what has gone before, it is not a "position" you can place yourself in, forces dictate it, as far as your swing it is very similar to what we saw before but now we can see the inconsistencies in ball flight as there was a mix of shots, mostly right but a couple of tops as well, this will always happen with reliance on hand eye co-ordination and lack of bigger muscles being used.

[David Hillman]

Originally Posted by Eracer

No pre-shot routine. No setup to the ball. Your posture is horrendous. You seem to be just flailing away without any real purpose.

Sorry if I sound harsh, but those are my thoughts.

No problem, those are honestly new thoughts to me. I wasn't aware there is some secret-handshake-like routine that must be perfomed. I just hit the ball, since I don't know any better. What is "setup to the ball"? I was under the mistaken impression that it was good enough just to aim and swing. What more purpose is required than picking out a target and hitting at it?

The finish of your golf swing is brought about by what has gone before, it is not a "position" you can place yourself in, forces dictate it, as far as your swing it is very similar to what we saw before but now we can see the inconsistencies in ball flight as there was a mix of shots, mostly right but a couple of tops as well, this will always happen with reliance on hand eye co-ordination and lack of bigger muscles being used.

It's a semantic distinction to me, but okay, I'll restate what I tried. I tried to change my swing so it resulted in a finish more like what I see from your typical Tour pro. The point being, my swing fits me pretty well; better than others I've tried.

I was hitting 2 irons from the rough... your damn right there was "a mix". If I could every one perfect, I probably wouldn't be posting video here. By my count, 6 of the 8 were solid and straight. Two were thin, and one of those was pulled. Your standards are clearly higher, but I will take that.

Thanks.

[Eracer]

Watch the pros play, and you will see that they are very meticulous about their set up. You do want to "aim at the target and hit it," but you must eliminate many of the variables that can prevent you from doing that effectively.

When I say setup, I'm referring to a few basic things, again, all intended to reduce the variables.

Grip. You should take your grip exactly the same way every time you setup for a shot. Slight changes in hand position and pressure can make enormous changes in your swing. I like to hold the grip end with the shaft pointing about 45-deg. up. This lets me feel the perfect grip pressure. I look downrange over the top of the club to double-check my grip alignment, making sure the grooves are straight up and down (or set for a slight draw or fade - although at my level, I try to hit most shots straight.)

Alignment. I don't know of a single pro who doesn't stand behind the ball and take a moment to acquire the intended line of flight. If your alignment is off by 5 degrees at setup, even a great shot will be off by many yards. Pick out an intermediate target a few feet in front of the ball, and align your clubhead, feet, hips, and shoulders to that line.

Posture. Golf is about repetition (muscle memory.) I'm not saying you should spend an inordinate amount of time making sure your posture is perfect, since that will introduce a lot of tension. But watch the pros. They have a routine that gets them into the same posture every time. You need to develop an athletic posture. My teachers always told me to feel like you're a 2nd baseman, awaiting the hit.

Developing a routine that covers these three things will go a long way towards improving your swing. Use a good routine on the range. Don't mindlessly whack balls around. Take a few seconds before each swing to stand behind the ball and grip the club, getting a feel for its weight in your hands, and the pressure you're applying to the grip. Visualize the trajectory, then step in and align yourself properly to the target line. Then relax and swing. Remember - every shot counts for something.

That's what "aim and swing" really means. And keep in mind that a good routine should take no more than about 20 seconds. You want to get to where it is a routine - not something you have to think about on the course. You want to work on your routine at the range, just like you work on the rest of your swing. Just like the rest of your swing becomes ingrained.

As for the comment about the divots - again, watch the pros. When they hit balls on the range, there is a single long divot pointing downrange (maybe a couple, if they're hitting a lot of balls.) Not only does this help keep the range usable for more people, it helps them analyze their swing.

Hope this helps.

[charnockpro]

[quote=David Hillman;232724]No problem, those are honestly new thoughts to me. I wasn't aware there is some secret-handshake-like routine that must be perfomed. I just hit the ball, since I don't know any better. What is "setup to the ball"? I was under the mistaken impression that it was good enough just to aim and swing. What more purpose is required than picking out a target and hitting at it?



It's a semantic distinction to me, but okay, I'll restate what I tried. I tried to change my swing so it resulted in a finish more like what I see from your typical Tour pro. The point being, my swing fits me pretty well; better than others I've tried.

I was only saying how a finish comes about, and it is a by-product of what has gone before, you were the one who said you were trying to finish like a Pro

I was hitting 2 irons from the rough... your damn right there was "a mix". If I could every one perfect, I probably wouldn't be posting video here. By my count, 6 of the 8 were solid and straight. Two were thin, and one of those was pulled. Your standards are clearly higher, but I will take that.

I counted that most went right and stayed there but maybe that was the camera and one was topped and another thin

[charnockpro]

fficeffice" />> My Take>
Shot 1 straight with a fade at the end>>
Shot 2 straight with a fade>>
Shot 3 lost to the right>>
Shot 4 topped>>
Shot 5 thin>>
Shot 6 push>>
Shot 7 cut>>
Shot 8 fat

This is a friendly forum and the guys on here are always willing to help a fellow golfer with his problems, what we do not appreciate is someone coming here and eschewing the advice given with slightly sarcastic remarks.

If that was rough you were hitting 2 irons out of i would love to play your courses every week!!, i agree totally with eracer that there was not an ounce of care taken with pre shot routines or alignment so you cannot expect decent feedback from practice if you do not prepare properly and give yourself a chance of gaining accurate information.

It was not about standards more just saying what i see, this is usually what an analysis consists of, and again i will state that trying to "get" to a finish position is false economy, you arrive at the finish of your golf swing due to what has occured before so if you are happy with what you have you will not ever finish with a "tour pro's" finish sadly, you will always finish with the by product of the ingrained faults you had before.

[David Hillman]

Originally Posted by charnockpro

fficeffice" />> My Take>
Shot 1 straight with a fade at the end>>
Shot 2 straight with a fade>>
Shot 3 lost to the right>>
Shot 4 topped>>
Shot 5 thin>>
Shot 6 push>>
Shot 7 cut>>
Shot 8 fat

This is a friendly forum and the guys on here are always willing to help a fellow golfer with his problems, what we do not appreciate is someone coming here and eschewing the advice given with slightly sarcastic remarks.

If that was rough you were hitting 2 irons out of i would love to play your courses every week!!, i agree totally with eracer that there was not an ounce of care taken with pre shot routines or alignment so you cannot expect decent feedback from practice if you do not prepare properly and give yourself a chance of gaining accurate information.

It was not about standards more just saying what i see, this is usually what an analysis consists of, and again i will state that trying to "get" to a finish position is false economy, you arrive at the finish of your golf swing due to what has occured before so if you are happy with what you have you will not ever finish with a "tour pro's" finish sadly, you will always finish with the by product of the ingrained faults you had before.

Wow, I clearly pissed in someone's Cheerios without aiming for them.

For the record, I didn't actually ask for swing advice, so I reserve the right to eschew whatever I want, with all due respect. My swing, ugly though it may be, is reasonably well-grooved for the amount that I play ( 2-3 times a month ) and no, I'm not particularly interested in changing it. I'm less interested in changing my whole approach to golf, just because Eracer ( nice guy though he may be ) says I should. His description of hitting a golf ball sounds more like work, than fun, to me.

All that said, I have access to better-quality copies of that video than what I posted, and *I* can't follow the flight of the ball 'to the end', so if you can make that out, I'm impressed. None of them had any significant side-spin, which is normal for me, hitting irons.

With respect to the finish position discussion, that was just an example I was trying to use to illustrate that people's bodies are different. What appears to you to be painful wrist action, is not to me. What is a normal finish for most golfers is painful to me.

I'm sorry you guys don't like how I hit golf balls... wait, no I'm not. That's how I hit 'em. It may look like "not an ounce of care" to you, but for chrissakes, this is golf, right? It's supposed to be fun, and maybe even carefree, not surgery. That's how I golf, in fact, it's how I do most things; not a lot of wasted time or effort ( except posting ).

As the title of this thread states, I was curious to perform an experiment. I've always believed that there isn't one right way to swing a club. The only things that really truly matter are club vector and velocity at impact. How you get there, and what you do after, don't matter a lick, in and of themselves. Which is not to say that certain mechanics won't make it easier, when I got my wife to stop twisting her forearms into a corkscrew on her backswing, her contact improved drastically. Anyway, I just wanted to see if people could look at an unfamiliar swing and predict the results. At least in this case, the results were mixed. If that was offensive, I am sorry.

[Eracer]

Originally Posted by David Hillman

Wow, I clearly pissed in someone's Cheerios without aiming for them.

For the record, I didn't actually ask for swing advice, so I reserve the right to eschew whatever I want, with all due respect. My swing, ugly though it may be, is reasonably well-grooved for the amount that I play ( 2-3 times a month ) and no, I'm not particularly interested in changing it. I'm less interested in changing my whole approach to golf, just because Eracer ( nice guy though he may be ) says I should. His description of hitting a golf ball sounds more like work, than fun, to me.

All that said, I have access to better-quality copies of that video than what I posted, and *I* can't follow the flight of the ball 'to the end', so if you can make that out, I'm impressed. None of them had any significant side-spin, which is normal for me, hitting irons.

With respect to the finish position discussion, that was just an example I was trying to use to illustrate that people's bodies are different. What appears to you to be painful wrist action, is not to me. What is a normal finish for most golfers is painful to me.

I'm sorry you guys don't like how I hit golf balls... wait, no I'm not. That's how I hit 'em. It may look like "not an ounce of care" to you, but for chrissakes, this is golf, right? It's supposed to be fun, and maybe even carefree, not surgery. That's how I golf, in fact, it's how I do most things; not a lot of wasted time or effort ( except posting ).

As the title of this thread states, I was curious to perform an experiment. I've always believed that there isn't one right way to swing a club. The only things that really truly matter are club vector and velocity at impact. How you get there, and what you do after, don't matter a lick, in and of themselves. Which is not to say that certain mechanics won't make it easier, when I got my wife to stop twisting her forearms into a corkscrew on her backswing, her contact improved drastically. Anyway, I just wanted to see if people could look at an unfamiliar swing and predict the results. At least in this case, the results were mixed. If that was offensive, I am sorry.

And I'm sorry for trying to help you improve your game. Won't make that mistake again. Have fun.

[David Hillman]

Originally Posted by Eracer

And I'm sorry for trying to help you improve your game. Won't make that mistake again. Have fun.

Don't be like that. We disagree about our approach to hitting golf balls. More serious disagreements have been tolerated in marriages lasting decades.

[Eracer]

Originally Posted by David Hillman

Don't be like that. We disagree about our approach to hitting golf balls. More serious disagreements have been tolerated in marriages lasting decades.

We're not married. And you aren't interested in my help. Therefore I won't try to help anymore. No rancor. No problem.

[charnockpro]

For the record, I didn't actually ask for swing advice, so I reserve the right to eschew whatever I want, with all due respect.
Ok i respect you didnt ask for advice, but to meet the advice with naysaying is what had rankled me.
My swing, ugly though it may be, is reasonably well-grooved for the amount that I play ( 2-3 times a month ) and no, I'm not particularly interested in changing it. I'm less interested in changing my whole approach to golf, just because Eracer ( nice guy though he may be ) says I should. His description of hitting a golf ball sounds more like work, than fun, to me.
I can see where Ercaer is coming from and it is from a helpful point of view, there are many books solely on the pre shot routine (30 second golf swing) and your approach is obviously different, we were not telling you what to do merely suggesting what we thought would help.

All that said, I have access to better-quality copies of that video than what I posted, and *I* can't follow the flight of the ball 'to the end', so if you can make that out, I'm impressed. None of them had any significant side-spin, which is normal for me, hitting irons.

I have watched enough golf balls and swings to know within the first few feet what a ball will do, it is easy to tell from just hearing the contact on the clubface where it has hit

With respect to the finish position discussion, that was just an example I was trying to use to illustrate that people's bodies are different. What appears to you to be painful wrist action, is not to me. What is a normal finish for most golfers is painful to me.

I again understand your point of view that you tried and it didnt suit you, but if you try to finish in a certain way from swinging the way you do it will hurt because of the stress and strain you put your body through to do it, and not for one second can a swing change to a tour pro and back to your swing, these changes knowing the way your body moves would take years.

I'm sorry you guys don't like how I hit golf balls... wait, no I'm not. That's how I hit 'em. It may look like "not an ounce of care" to you, but for chrissakes, this is golf, right? It's supposed to be fun, and maybe even carefree, not surgery. That's how I golf, in fact, it's how I do most things; not a lot of wasted time or effort ( except posting ).

As the title of this thread states, I was curious to perform an experiment. I've always believed that there isn't one right way to swing a club. The only things that really truly matter are club vector and velocity at impact. How you get there, and what you do after, don't matter a lick, in and of themselves. Which is not to say that certain mechanics won't make it easier, when I got my wife to stop twisting her forearms into a corkscrew on her backswing, her contact improved drastically. Anyway, I just wanted to see if people could look at an unfamiliar swing and predict the results. At least in this case, the results were mixed. If that was offensive, I am sorry.[/quote]

Yeah the results were mixed as we didnt see you hit a ball, until later in the thread and when given well meaning advice, the people who gave it felt like well thanks but screw you sort of reply was given, i agree with the no swing fits all thesis and if you look at past threads that is my main view on the swing, nobody is a robot, we are all built differently, we offered a few minor tweaks to help and got a big finger.