Gas Vs. Golf

[West Coast Duffer]

Anybody feeling the pinch yet? I havent cut back on golf or range time but im gettting very close too.

[JEFF4i]

Nah not really. But I live in a smaller city, and getting about 40 to the gallon

[dave.]

We pay $11 a gallon over here!

[papperlapub]

I pay in Europe more than 3 times as much as you guys do in the states

But i still wouldnt cut back on Golf though...

[acarty]

my friends just returned from FL and they said that you Americans are paying around $4-6 a gallon, and we pay $10-12 a gallon! Lucky you!

[IrishGolfer]

It's an extremely interesting time right now. I am working for a Large Format Lithium Phosphate battery manufacturer. Our main target market is HEV and EV vehicles, primarily commercial (buses, trucks, vans, taxis etc.) and there is a huge trend to moving towards battery driven cars (either as the sole energy source of coupled with hybrid engines). Heres some thoughts to ponder:

• 2010 will see the advent of a wave of EV cars, driven (LOL) by companies like GM (Volt). The 70s, 80s and 90s all saw the rise and fall of the electric car. However oil prices are escalating at an alarming rate and coupled with environmental concerns I really see 2010 as a springboard for EVs going forward. We are witnessing a "tipping point" imo.
• There are companies out there today such as THiNK and Miles EV that are already offering vehicles with 120 mile range, top speed of 70mph and relatively fast plug-in recharging capabilities. And get this they have 150K warranties (excluding tyres, brakes and suspension).
• It will cost a fraction of the price to "fill up" your car with electricity as opposed to gas / petrol.
• The HEV (hybrid) market has already exploded, but price and warranty are still holding it back. These cars are being driven primarily by NiMH chemistry and there is now a shift to Li-ion (Lithium) chemistry as a lighter and higher performance alternative.
• SUVs and bigger / heavier cars are dead in the water.
• Fuel efficiency will get much better, but cars will be smaller and lighter. We may well see cars that reach 100mph in the next 20 years.
• Diesel is very popular in Europe. An average diesel car will now easily get 40-50mpg. Advances in petrol (gas) engine technology will move ahead in the next few years to bridge that gap and diesel / petrol will become similar.
• Europe is a hotbed for EV right now. Europeans tend to have a smaller commute that Americans averaging 20-30 miles as opposed to 50-60. Makes it easier to adopt EVs.
• Electric cars are still limited by battery technology and price. Lithium Phospahte is very safe (as opposed to Li-ion batteries which have Oxide chemistry (those bad boys explode when they get hot (thermal runaway).
• Fuel cells and Ultracapacitors are other energy options but have limitations (mostly commercial) and are 10 years + away from reality.
• Petrol stations will adapt to include charging points with super fast chargers (10 minutes to top-up). They will be charging points at Supermarkets, offices etc.
• Energy will be sourced from non-fossil fuels, wind, solar, nuclear.
• Car companies will need to offer battery technology that is relatively cheap and has a minimum 10 year warranty. But the battery manufacturers who get it right will be hugely successful!!

Sorry bit of a soap box rant which has nothing to do with golf! But I would be interested to hear some thoughts on this subject so feel free to "rip my thoughts to shreads"!

[Adam Pettman]

Electricity will always be around, its the fuel of tommorow.

[Clugnut]

Originally Posted by IrishGolfer

It's an extremely interesting time right now. I am working for a Large Format Lithium Phosphate battery manufacturer. Our main target market is HEV and EV vehicles, primarily commercial (buses, trucks, vans, taxis etc.) and there is a huge trend to moving towards battery driven cars (either as the sole energy source of coupled with hybrid engines). Heres some thoughts to ponder:

• 2010 will see the advent of a wave of EV cars, driven (LOL) by companies like GM (Volt). The 70s, 80s and 90s all saw the rise and fall of the electric car. However oil prices are escalating at an alarming rate and coupled with environmental concerns I really see 2010 as a springboard for EVs going forward. We are witnessing a "tipping point" imo.
• There are companies out there today such as THiNK and Miles EV that are already offering vehicles with 120 mile range, top speed of 70mph and relatively fast plug-in recharging capabilities. And get this they have 150K warranties (excluding tyres, brakes and suspension).
• It will cost a fraction of the price to "fill up" your car with electricity as opposed to gas / petrol.
• The HEV (hybrid) market has already exploded, but price and warranty are still holding it back. These cars are being driven primarily by NiMH chemistry and there is now a shift to Li-ion (Lithium) chemistry as a lighter and higher performance alternative.
• SUVs and bigger / heavier cars are dead in the water.
• Fuel efficiency will get much better, but cars will be smaller and lighter. We may well see cars that reach 100mph in the next 20 years.
• Diesel is very popular in Europe. An average diesel car will now easily get 40-50mpg. Advances in petrol (gas) engine technology will move ahead in the next few years to bridge that gap and diesel / petrol will become similar.
• Europe is a hotbed for EV right now. Europeans tend to have a smaller commute that Americans averaging 20-30 miles as opposed to 50-60. Makes it easier to adopt EVs.
• Electric cars are still limited by battery technology and price. Lithium Phospahte is very safe (as opposed to Li-ion batteries which have Oxide chemistry (those bad boys explode when they get hot (thermal runaway).
• Fuel cells and Ultracapacitors are other energy options but have limitations (mostly commercial) and are 10 years + away from reality.
• Petrol stations will adapt to include charging points with super fast chargers (10 minutes to top-up). They will be charging points at Supermarkets, offices etc.
• Energy will be sourced from non-fossil fuels, wind, solar, nuclear.
• Car companies will need to offer battery technology that is relatively cheap and has a minimum 10 year warranty. But the battery manufacturers who get it right will be hugely successful!!

Sorry bit of a soap box rant which has nothing to do with golf! But I would be interested to hear some thoughts on this subject so feel free to "rip my thoughts to shreads"!

It would be great if what you said came true, except for the death of the big car. If we would have decent electric vehicles, then the challenge would be to supply cheap, efficient electric to everyone. Hopefully we would be smart enough to start building nuclear plant. I would love to tell the oil monkey to kiss off. I hope we have a little oil around to still run some of the old stuff. I'll be pissed if I need to take the LT-1 out of my Corvette, and replace it!

[IrishGolfer]

Originally Posted by Clugnut

except for the death of the big car.

Big cars will always be around, but I think they will start to dwindle as "workhorse" / day-2-day vehicles. The huge growth trend of SUVs / 4x4s and urban trucks in the 90s and 00s will surely die. These hunks of metal will be replaced by smaller, lighter cars which will get more efficient MPGs, either or gas or electric.

I think the world is waking up to the fact that we cannot indefinitely go on building bigger and bigger as the energy required to run these applications is not infinite and will start costing Average Joe a lot more to run.

Americans are so used to driving for "next to nothing". Only now is the reality of massive rises in gas prices starting to wake folk up.

Europeans have had to live with this (higher fuel costs) for decades and hence we have had smaller more efficient cars for some time now. The diesel trend is interesting. I would estimate that 50% of all vehicles in the road now in Europe are diesel. I also see EVs / PHEVs being more readily accepted and deployed on European roads than US roads. Smaller commutes and higher gas prices are the main drivers for this.

Don't get me wrong, this is not "yet another US bashing". It is just plain economics. I have no idea how much alternative energy vehicles (eg battery) will grow in the future, but I do see everyone (globally) having to think a bit more laterally about getting from A to B.

Wirehair's 7mpg Wagon will become a museum display. He'll certainly have to sell a lot more Scottys to keep that thing on the road in future.

[IrishGolfer]

Originally Posted by Adam Pettman

Electricity will always be around, its the fuel of tommorow.

Agreed but it cannot continue to be generated by fossil fuels. We need other sources of electricity. Solar, wind, wave, crop ethanol, nuclear, hydrogen etc. are all potential candidates. Coal and gas will simply run out at some point. If we don't have economically viable and sustainable alternatives in place, we are all fxxxed!!

[MCDavis]

I still drive to play in my Yukon XL. Last weekend we chose to play out of town rather than in town, so no, gas is not having an effect on my golf.

[SCGolfer]

I haven't cut back on my play since it is generally pretty cheap anyway. The home course is only 25 bucks after 1 during the week so that I can deal with. I have however pulled out the beater/daily driver for trips to work, driving about 60 miles a day in the Tacoma getting about 18 mpg's definately runs up the gas bill. The beater is getting about 32-36 so it makes a big difference.


Jason

[eclark53520]

Originally Posted by Adam Pettman

Electricity will always be around, its the fuel of tommorow.

Thats what they said about oil too...electricity itself will always be here, however you still need the components to create, store, and utilize electricity...someday one or more of those components will run out and we will be back in the same situation...

Actually the gas prices have reduced my playing golf. I have invested my money in a motorcycle that will in 2 summers of riding pay itself off at the current rate of gas prices($4/gal)...not to mention the fact that its only going up and that will only save me more money. Golf is not my priority right now...

i just need to find a way to carry my golf clubs on my bike!

[SiberianDVM]

Originally Posted by eclark53520

i just need to find a way to carry my golf clubs on my bike!

I had a guy bring his cat-in-carrier to me on his motorcycle this week, so balancing some golf clubs shouldn't be too difficult.

You go first.

p.s.: I have cut my range time down from 5 times a week to 2, as it is 5 miles each way during heavy traffic. Plus, it's hot as hell right now.

[ezra76]

I've started going to the range near my house a lot more often as opposed to the grass range that is about 10 miles away. The one near my house is like .8 miles. I don't mind since the short game practice areas are very good.

I've also cut back to about 1 round per week. It's not just gas though, I've also got a car payment as well now. No big deal though, I'm getting better as I'm practicing more and making videos, actually working on my swing. I also appreciate the rounds I get to play more.