What's considered a putt? (statistically)

[effektz]

Originally Posted by Fourputt

Way I see it, if you hit it the ball with a putter it's a putt. If you hit it with anything else, regardless of where the ball lies, it's not a putt.

Exactly! that's why it's called a putter I thought

[Eracer]

Originally Posted by Fourputt

Way I see it, if you hit it the ball with a putter it's a putt. If you hit it with anything else, regardless of where the ball lies, it's not a putt.

So by that logic, if I use my driver to chip a ball out from under a tree onto the green, I've driven the green? What if I drive the ball in the fairway from the tee, then hit my second shot into the rough under some trees, then use my driver to punch back into the fairway. Do I get to count two fairways hit?

[Pa Jayhawk]

Originally Posted by Eracer

So by that logic, if I use my driver to chip a ball out from under a tree onto the green, I've driven the green? What if I drive the ball in the fairway from the tee, then hit my second shot into the rough under some trees, then use my driver to punch back into the fairway. Do I get to count two fairways hit?

For me (and from everything I have ever heard) if you can't mark it, it is not a putt.

Also under that logic you need to consider that most people who track putts also track many other things. If you hit a ball on the fringe or collar, and use a putter even if you are say 3-5 feet off the green, then if that is a putt you would also have to count it as a GIR. Or would you otherwise on a par 3 have a 3 putt bogie without a GIR? I guess you can track it that way, but at least to me it would really not give me a good evaluation of how I play and what to concentrate on.

I have always said, that even though I only average about 29 putts a round, that does not really indicate I am an outstanding putter when I see I also only hit 4 or so GIR. I do consider myself a good putter, although if that read 36 putts per round with 11 GIR, it lead me to believe I need to practice my putting when really I need to get my approaches closer to the pin. If I chip from the fringe one time, and putt the next from the exact same spot, what will that tell me about the stats on my game if I do not count them as the same? At least by counting it as a chip with a missed green, I know I didn't hit my approach. Where if it is a 2 putt from 5 feet and a 2 putt from the fringe, I will know the difference better on average by tracking the way I do.

Or if I have mud or dirt on the side of my ball, is that really a good indication of my game if that ends up as a 3 putt from the fringe?

[MGP]

Originally Posted by Eracer

So by that logic, if I use my driver to chip a ball out from under a tree onto the green, I've driven the green?

Nope. It's just a regular ground stroke regardless of which club you use. However, if you do "chip" onto the green with your driver and then make the putt you got "up and down" statistically.

What if I drive the ball in the fairway from the tee, then hit my second shot into the rough under some trees, then use my driver to punch back into the fairway. Do I get to count two fairways hit?

Nope again. Fairways hit only counts for your "drive" and that is defined as your first shot played from the teeing area (except on Par 3's, which technically have no fairway and thus no opportunity for a Fairway Hit). You only get one chance per hole for a "Fairway Hit".

Originally Posted by Pa Jayhawk

For me (and from everything I have ever heard) if you can't mark it, it is not a putt.

Also under that logic you need to consider that most people who track putts also track many other things. If you hit a ball on the fringe or collar, and use a putter even if you are say 3-5 feet off the green, then if that is a putt you would also have to count it as a GIR. Or would you otherwise on a par 3 have a 3 putt bogie without a GIR? I guess you can track it that way, but at least to me it would really not give me a good evaluation of how I play and what to concentrate on.

I have always said, that even though I only average about 29 putts a round, that does not really indicate I am an outstanding putter when I see I also only hit 4 or so GIR. I do consider myself a good putter, although if that read 36 putts per round with 11 GIR, it lead me to believe I need to practice my putting when really I need to get my approaches closer to the pin. If I chip from the fringe one time, and putt the next from the exact same spot, what will that tell me about the stats on my game if I do not count them as the same? At least by counting it as a chip with a missed green, I know I didn't hit my approach. Where if it is a 2 putt from 5 feet and a 2 putt from the fringe, I will know the difference better on average by tracking the way I do.

Or if I have mud or dirt on the side of my ball, is that really a good indication of my game if that ends up as a 3 putt from the fringe?

One of the best stats I started keeping in addition to the normal GIR, fairways hit, total putts, up and downs, sand saves, etc. is length of first putt. It tells you a lot about your scoring and game in general. If your average first putt is 50 ft. then you should expect to not one-putt much, in fact probably three-putt more often than if your average first putt is 20 ft. or less. It also tells you whether you need to tighten up your approach shots or wedge play too. Putting stats alone can be misleading without knowing how long your first putt is.

[Eracer]

Thanks MGP. But I was being sarcastic.

A putt is any shot played from the putting surface. A drive is any shot played from the teeing ground.

A shot from the fringe using a putter is not a "putt." Nor is a shot from the fringe using a driver a "drive."

We're in agreement on that.

[MGP]

I figured you were, but hey... never know for sure with you!

[Eracer]

Originally Posted by MGP

I figured you were, but hey... never know for sure with you!

You're never alone with a schizophrenic!

[Wi-Golfer]

Originally Posted by Fourputt

Way I see it, if you hit it the ball with a putter it's a putt. If you hit it with anything else, regardless of where the ball lies, it's not a putt.

So strictly statistically speaking if I were to use my hybrid for all my putting then I would have zero putts for the rd?????

[Fourputt]

Another peculiarity to consider in the vein of this discussion. Normally, if you hit a green in regulation, then 2 putt, its a par, right?

But now with what's going on here, if I hit that green in regulation, rap my first putt past the hole and onto the fringe, miss the return shot, be it a fringe putt or a chip, then hole the next one, I've got a green in regulation and I've 2 putted, but I still made bogey.

The stats look good, but the score still sucks.

[Fourputt]

Originally Posted by Wi-Golfer

So strictly statistically speaking if I were to use my hybrid for all my putting then I would have zero putts for the rd?????

Been there done that.... in a 4 club tournament. Tough to say where it stops being a putt and becomes chipping on the green.

[Eracer]

Originally Posted by Fourputt

Been there done that.... in a 4 club tournament. Tough to say where it stops being a putt and becomes chipping on the green.

Statistically, I don't think you can chip on the green.

Again, if you are allowed to mark the ball, it's a putt, no matter what club you use.

[JEFF4i]

Originally Posted by Eracer

Statistically, I don't think you can chip on the green.

Again, if you are allowed to mark the ball, it's a putt, no matter what club you use.

This is why the rule is such as it is.

If it were everytime you used your putter, I'd just hit thin shots with my PW all day. I putt pretty well with it.

[cabinessence]

We aren't on tour, so the distinction is pretty meaningless outside of "whatever you find useful." (Even there, putt totals are meaningless, of course. Those guys don't need ShotLink to confirm they are putting poorly.) I count anything that rolls smoothly the whole way as a putt. In practice that includes the fringe and anywhere between 0-3 feet off the green, depending on grass length.

[Eracer]

Originally Posted by cabinessence

We aren't on tour, so the distinction is pretty meaningless outside of "whatever you find useful." (Even there, putt totals are meaningless, of course. Those guys don't need ShotLink to confirm they are putting poorly.) I count anything that rolls smoothly the whole way as a putt. In practice that includes the fringe and anywhere between 0-3 feet off the green, depending on grass length.

I guess that's the truth of it. Stats are intended to help sort out the pros.

But they also help amateurs understand where their faults lie. So why not make the stats mean sense to you?

I suppose I should count any drive I hit over 220 yards that has a clear shot to the green, from grass that's not over 1 inch high, as a "fairway hit."

And if I'm pin-high with my approach shot, and I get it on the green and one-putt, I should count it as a GIR.

I had a shitload of putts in Scotland, since any time I was short of the green and within 20 yards, I was using the putter.