What the hell!?!

[DH4816]

I've been hitting the ball pretty well the last couple weeks except with my 3 iron and driver. A week ago I hit every fairway with my 3 wood. I wwas left with long second shots but in good shape.

So being smart and all I decide to take a lesson on Thursday for help with my long irons (3 was awful, 4 iffy) and driver. Pro says I should open my hips more and encourages me to start my swing with a really aggressive hip opening move. He says basically the Tiger move but like a normal person would do it not a superhuman.

Now, I knew I needed to open up more and had been working on it he was just explaining it in a different way and tried to get me to take a little pause at the top of my backswing to wait for my hips to start their move. Makes sense right?

What's the result you ask? Day after the lesson I shot the worst round of my life. Today I spent two hours at the range and nearly screamed in frustration. I can barely make contact with the ball. I'm now slicing my 7 iron--I never miss with my 7 iron. I alternate between a wicked slice and horrible topping the ball. I feel like I'm chopping the club like I'm on the ESPN lumberjack challenge.

So the question is now what. To I try to get my old move back or stick with the new one until it works? To make things worse the few times I've pulled off the new move right it is straighter and longer than ever. Like a perfectly straight 180+ yard 7 iron.

DH

[JEFF4i]

Hmmmm.

That's a tough question. Do you plan on continuing those lessons with that guy?

[DH4816]

Originally Posted by JEFF4i

Hmmmm.

That's a tough question. Do you plan on continuing those lessons with that guy?

He's the assistant pro at the club I just joined. He has a good rep with other members. I'm just not sure I'm flexible enough to make the move he'd like me to make.

I know I need to open my hips more on the driver, maybe there is some kind of hybrid move that will get me there.

DH

[West Coast Duffer]

I've been working on the same thing, clearing your left hip ala Tiger Woods. its hard to get the timing and technique down but stick with it, its very effective.

[Harry Longshanks]

There is always a period of adjustment after a lesson while integrating the new information. My swing always goes wonky after a lesson.

Give it a couple of weeks (and practice), then go back for another lesson. If you are still having trouble, tell the pro. A good pro will be able to look at you swing and immediately tell what you are doing wrong.

Ironically, I'm working on an early hip clearing (I think that's what you are describing too) because it gets in the way of my torso and cause my to go over the top. It's a hard movement to integrate because it really messes with your timing and tempo. But when I get it right, I'm crushing the ball.

I've had the same instructor for 2 years, and I often question what he tells me right after a lesson. But so far, he's always been right. (I just keep coming up with new ways to wreck my swing.)

[RCI]

I am in your new teacher's camp... the hips open early in the modern type swing. That's the way almost any athletic swing or throw is done. However, getting the hang of it is always tough on golfers who did not grow up hitting this way.

Here is a drill to try. Get on the range. Take an 8-iron, tee it up a bit higher than a normal iron, at least a half to an inch high. Take a short back swing while trying to actually hold the right hip so it does not turn away at all (it feels like you turn the right hip toward the ball (just the opposite of what you probably have been doing.) Then just swing while trying to hit the ball only 80 yards. Start the swing with the hips turning (with no slide toward the target, start the down swing by pulling the left hip around like Tiger) driving from the ground up, then let the arms drop around and through. I'll bet if you do this drill, you can hit your 8 iron dead straight and about the same distance as your normal swing.

There are two things to note: (1) yes, you will flatten out the bottom of your swing a lot and maybe top a few, but once you get the hang of it, you will have thin divots at best -- not a bad thing. (2) think about your hands coming around from inside and under a table -- you want the body rotation to lead the arms and hands so they fly around you, and not like they are hitting down in a chopping motion or over the top move.

In reality, this is a very normal modern swing motion. Think flat bottom and not a "V" shape approach to the ball. Remember... you are trying to hit it only 80 yards but you want no hip turn in the back swing at all. You firm up the lower body and then fire the hips around with no forward slid at all. If you do it correctly you will hit your 8 iron the same distance as a full swing. This is an amazing drill that works. It will tighten up your swing, promote very straight shots (adust grip until it does) and make your backswing more controlled. I'll be very interested in your report back if you try it. I try to hit every shot restricting the hip turn on the backswing and opening up as quickly as I can... if you think about it, this is the way to throw a baseball, football, discus, shot put, etc. Think about a shortstop in baseball making a 3/4 underhand throw to first base... the right hip does not ever go back with the right shoulder, rather, the shoulders rotate back creating torque against a firmer lower body.

Yes you will top a lot of shots at first, but in time you "measure to the ball" and your divots will be thin and crisp. Once it becomes second nature, you will actually hit it longer in all likelyhood.

Cheers, and good luck.
CI

[mddubya]

You have to get worse to get better, stick with it for a while and give it a chance.

[Eracer]

Originally Posted by RCI

I am in your new teacher's camp... the hips open early in the modern type swing. That's the way almost any athletic swing or throw is done. However, getting the hang of it is always tough on golfers who did not grow up hitting this way.

CI

I've been working on this exact move lately, and I'm getting some great results. The swing shallows out, and my ballflight is straightening out quite nicely. Unfortunately, my misses, when they happen, are getting really, really bad. But that's the price you pay when you try to make a big change.

I'm going to stick with it. DH should stick with it as well.

[DH4816]

Thanks guys, I'll stick with it. I've known for some time that I needed to open my hips more I just really have trouble getting there.

For those of you who have worked on this any other drills that help you get the feel are appreciated.

DH

[Clugnut]

I've always heard horror stories of pro's ruining swings, but I'm not sure that it ever really happens. Any knowledgable pro can look at your swing and give you a few things to work on. If there good, they'll build you up, and pick the biggest fault to work on fixing. If a large opening of the hips is what he wants you to work on, that tells me that you have a good swing already. Just what I see.

If you want to kick start your improvement, I'd go see the pro again and just talk to him for a few minutes. Before you ditch him as a teacher, he should know what happened, and be given a chance to help you with it.

By practicing one move, you may have create another move that is throwing everything. I do this all the time.

[DH4816]

Originally Posted by Clugnut

I've always heard horror stories of pro's ruining swings, but I'm not sure that it ever really happens. Any knowledgable pro can look at your swing and give you a few things to work on. If there good, they'll build you up, and pick the biggest fault to work on fixing. If a large opening of the hips is what he wants you to work on, that tells me that you have a good swing already. Just what I see.

If you want to kick start your improvement, I'd go see the pro again and just talk to him for a few minutes. Before you ditch him as a teacher, he should know what happened, and be given a chance to help you with it.

By practicing one move, you may have create another move that is throwing everything. I do this all the time.

Just so folks don't think I'm mad a the pro, I'm not. I'm just not sure I can consistently make the move he wants me to make, I'm not the most flexible guy.

I'm going to keep working on it though, I'll give it an honest chance.

DH

[RCI]

I know it sounds counter intuitive, but flexibility is not really a good reason to avoid creating a larger shoulder turn than hip turn on the backswing. The key is speed clearing the left hip on the downswing. Less flexibility just means a shorter backswing in a good swing. Getting the club back in a long backswing is typically accompanied by a poor hip turn. What I mean by that is a hip turn that lets the right knee straighten, the right hip turn too far, almost the same as the shoulders -- this is usually a bad thing. You cannot keep the power generation going on the downswing if the hips and shoulders turn together. No matter the level of flexibility, clearing the hips from the ground up without sliding them toward the target is the secret of power hitters. You will get to the left side naturally with a full clearing of the left side. I think this is the least well understood thing about the golf swing.

Padraig Harrington (who won the PGA today, and the Open this year as well) has said his swing keys are (1) backswing: don't let the right knee move (i.e. he restricts his hip turn), and (2) downswing: rotation of hips (which is called "clearing") rather than ANY lateral slide. It is hard to say it any simplier -- but I know people really struggle with these two simple concepts. No one said this game was easy, but it really is pretty simple. Personally, I find when I "lose it" out on the course, the fix is to remember these simple ideas. I must be a little dense because I sure can forget them from time to time... usually this happens when I think I need to hit it harder when in reality a longer. less firmly planted swing produces less club head speed and hits it off line.

[DH4816]

Played this afternoon. Only got in 11 before we were rained out. Thank god for putting I couldn't hit a fairway.

I'm real good about not moving my right leg on the backswing. For some reason the lesson has got in my head and I just can't get my hips to clear. I'm still working on it, not giving up. Just frustrating because I was opening them just not enough, take a lesson where they tell me to open up more and now I can't open them at all. It is all mental.

I'm playing the next three days (got some half work days) so I hope to get it sorted out.

DH

[RCI]

Here is another little training thought (but you don't hit a ball doing this.) Take your grip and let the little finger of the right hand come off the club and point straight out. Then stick this little finger in your right pocket while holding the club normally (otherwise.) Now think about how you would have to turn your hips to swing the club around through the hitting area (while keeping the little finger of the right hand still stuck in the right pocket.)

Actually, you do not quite have the hands this far back at impact, but the feeling of turning the hips to bring the hands through the impact area feels a lot like this. Other ways people say it is to try to get the belt buckle pointing generally forward through impact or having both butt cheeks pointed to the rear at impact. When some one kills a drive, I've heard the phrase, "he two cheeked it" and that is what it means.

Don't over do any of this stuff. You do not have to swing hard or struggle when doing it. Just take smooth swings, doing the teed up, 80 yard 8 iron drill to get the feel. You will know when your body starts feeling it because the rotation of the hips is what will square the club and you will lose the whole idea of a hands type strike through impact.

One last thought... on the take-away, don't let the club come inside quickly. Let the left arm extend back down the line and then let the arms rise while holding the right hip and knee firm. Then just relax, turn the hips with no slide while the arms drop and the body leads the arms through impact.

Under pressure, a body controlled swing to square the club is much better. You will see pros take the club back in a way that almost looks like they are taking it outside the line. They are just loading the right side while holding it firm rather than jerking the club inside and collapsing the right hip (which leads to a push or over the top slice, or a quick flip of the hands and a pull left.) Just relax and let the body pull you through square and you cannot help but improve in time. The club goes left after impact because of the rotation of the body -- and this is what you want.

Have fun and good luck... Hope this helps.

[btdickey99]

I agree with the others on sticking with this method. It is very effective, and most times in golf you have to get worse to get better.

I had something similar happen when I went to 2 straight swing lessons, Wed & Thur. Chaanged my grip and my swing and told me to stick with it no matter what. Well that Friday started a flighted tournament and stuck with the swing the entire round, and was ugly, and ended up shooting a 118 but again I stuck with the new grip/swing.

Needless to say I went out the next round after spending that night hacking it at the range, and everything felt more comfortable all of a sudden. I hit the ball good that round and shot an 83. Needless to say they moved me up a couple of flights and I didnt win