Stealing the Soap Box

[floggerrushmd]

I am sorry if this is your soap box but it was just lying around and someone needed to stand on it. Now that I am up here I will start what I am sure will be a controversial post.

I think that there should be requirements in handicap and or playing ability to play some courses. That being said this is not because I despise playing with hackers, quite the opposite, I find that the worse my playing partners play the better I do. This comes on the heels of playing a round of golf at a difficult course (many forced carries of over 220 yds from all of the mens tees, and many of those carries were in the fairway rather than from the tee box so you are taking the longest stick in people's bags out of their hands and then requiring them to hit a shot they have no way of hitting.)

These guys who I will definitely play with again were both self admitted hackers - one had only broken 100 once and the other was a habitual mid to high 90s golfer. By no stretch of the imagination horrible golfers but they will not be on the pro tour any time soon. I say that they should not have been allowed to play this course for a couple of reasons

1. They had to chalk up a lost ball on any carry over 200 yds basically all day
2. This led to incredibly high scores and thus slow play
3. In trying to make it over some of these carries they ended up messing up their swing so much that they couldn't hit normal shots to their normal caliber.

Now I am all for a golf course being punishing, but if you are going to put in carries like that you need to put up a sign that tells these poor souls that this is not the place for them to play. I noticed this trend at Tobacco Road as well where my dad a 15 handicap had his arse handed to him by blind forced carries. It isn't fun for the people who are struggling, and it isn't fun for the people around them. We need to start qualifying courses as beginner friendly or only serious golfers.

With that I shall step down off of this soap box, and if you are the owner of this soap box you can pick it up in the lost and found.

[Wi-Golfer]

I have a couple thoughts on this, 1st off I absolutley hate the term hacker. Everyone tends to hack at times, even ole #2 Phil has hacked out a few snowmen & 9's.

Now as far as a course having "many" blind forced carries over 220 yds....sounds like a poorly designed course to me. And other than a forced carry over a tee shot, you do have options from the fairways such as laying up. At least this is what I think you are referring to in this sentence "(many forced carries of over 220 yds from all of the mens tees, and many of those carries were in the fairway rather than from the tee box so you are taking the longest stick in people's bags out of their hands and then requiring them to hit a shot they have no way of hitting.) "

[RCI]

You are doing well on the soap box... stay up there.

I agree with you, but the key is these kinds of courses should have tee boxes that allow a weaker player to successfully navigate around them. But, a lot of the problem with slow play is due to what you have mentioned. A few people want to play from tees that are inappropriate for their length. When almost every par four is unreachable for someone, then moving up should be encouraged. Think about it, if we live long lives, we will all need to move up some day and there is no shame in that. I play from time to time with a foursone that has guys hitting from three different tees (one time from four different tees,) and that seems to work better for all of us. No one makes a big deal out which tee box someone uses, and I suspect play is faster than if everyone tried to play the tips.

[RustyL]

When I first starting playing golf I learned quick which courses to stay away from. There is no glory for a beginner what so ever playing harder courses. It can be down right frustrating on easier courses...for me...In the beginning. I was not going to go out a shame myself for all to see, I do have some pride.. Most days I shoot in the 80's, sometimes I'll get into low 90's.

As far as posting criteria, I guess most courses need the money not to do so. It would probably keep alot of folks off. Greens fees might go up. I take plenty of beer and kick back to let folks have their day or proceed to the next hole in front of them. Most places I play have marshalls to keep everyone going.

Maybe this was the first time those fellows played that courses and won't be back until they get better.

[Bignose]

Originally Posted by Wi-Golfer

Now as far as a course having "many" blind forced carries over 220 yds....sounds like a poorly designed course to me. And other than a forced carry over a tee shot, you do have options from the fairways such as laying up. At least this is what I think you are referring to in this sentence

I agree with this. I have never seen a course with a 220 yard forced carry into a green. The most extreme I've ever seen were something like 150. Any carry over about 150, there is a bail out area for the players that cannot consistently carry more than 150. Now, if the player's drive left him 220 out, but he still had 70 yards to the front of the forced carry and he cannot hit 220 yard carries very often, then as much as anything it sounds like he needs to rethink his course managements. Sure, in the middle of the fairway on the par 4 no one wants to hit a 70 yard pitch just to the front of a hazard. But if they don't have the game, it is probably the best idea.

[JEFF4i]

At my home course they ask you how you play, handicap, all that, and recommend a tee to go off of. If the Marshalls feel you need to go off a different tee, they require it.

[FATC1TY]

It comes down to course management when you play if those problems arise.

If they are that long, then the course is setup retarded like and wasn't planned very well.

But what it mostly comes down to, is money. No courses, aside from the ultra private course, are going to turn ANYONE away that has the money to play.

It would be a buisness disaster to do so, and quite frankly, some people might not like the idea of having to pay $100 greens fees when you used to pay $50 because the course load has dropped 50% because the "hackers" can't play.

If you got to aggravated with the play, why didn't you break off, and speed ahead? I've never had anyone get upset when I told them I was going to play ahead of them, or skip a hole and go play alone or with my buddy. Some days I don't feel like playing with a stranger, and want to be alone, or with my golfing bud'.

[floggerrushmd]

If playing ahead were an option I could understand that, but in the Raleigh area it seems no matter what time I hit the course or what day of the week they are always packed, so alas that is not an option for me. To me a course that has a lot of forced carries isn't necessarily a bad course, and sorry about the misunderstanding the carries of 200+ were all off of the tees, but there is one prime example I feel I must discuss here.

Number 18 is a long par 4 for most golfers at 445yds, and yes the last 185 yds are all over water. Yes you can play to the right and all the way around the lake, but you only have a five yard stretch of grass between the lake, and the cartpath and on the other side is OB. Mercifully they put a drop area on the other side of the lake. I love courses that force you to make your best shots time and time again and severely penalize you for mishits. That being said I don't enjoy watching people be penalized again and again and again. I am not a sadist, and I don't derive pleasure from peoples misfortunes. Yet I also don't think these courses were mistakes or bad designs they are just not designed for the average golfer, and there is nothing wrong with that.

[SilverUberXeno]

It's up to poor golfers to find a more forgiving course. Same thing about equipment; less skilled golfers shouldn't play blades, etc.

[soxngolf]

I have to agree with a few of the guys here. If you had a forcer carry off the tee that was over 200 yards and your friends couldn't carry it, they needed to move up to a different tee so they could carry it. If there is a pride issue with that, they should lay up. It is course management that was necessary, it will make them better golfers. Now that is not saying that the course couldn't use a little different set up to help shorter hitters.

[cwo2lt]

I think the flogging doc has a good point, make a system similar to skiing. I would never consider a double black diamond run as I ski worse than I golf! By the same token I would not play the Ocean Course out a Kiawah until I could consistently shoot in the mid 80s from at least the middle tees.

[eclark53520]

Originally Posted by cwo2lt

I think the flogging doc has a good point, make a system similar to skiing. I would never consider a double black diamond run as I ski worse than I golf! By the same token I would not play the Ocean Course out a Kiawah until I could consistently shoot in the mid 80s from at least the middle tees.

But there are still noobs that skii the double blacks...i have seen it done. Personally, i dont think this system would work a great deal with golf because there is really little fear of death while on the golf course like there is on the ski slope...

really the only reason i(and most people) dont ski(snowboard) the hard stuff is because i dont want to die...if i had no chance of death or great bodily harm, i would have no qualms with trying the big boys.

[cwo2lt]

Originally Posted by eclark53520

But there are still noobs that skii the double blacks...i have seen it done. Personally, i dont think this system would work a great deal with golf because there is really little fear of death while on the golf course like there is on the ski slope...

really the only reason i(and most people) dont ski(snowboard) the hard stuff is because i dont want to die...if i had no chance of death or great bodily harm, i would have no qualms with trying the big boys.

That is a valid point as well.

[SiberianDVM]

As bad if not worse: courses that have blind landing areas. At least with forced carries from the teebox, you can move up a set of tees to make it easier.

What do you do when the only landing area is over the top of a hill, and there is a lake protecting the front of the green?

That's why I quit playing Hickory Knob. About half the time, you can't see where your tee shot lands, when you get to where you think it is, it ain't there, and it could be lost in the underbrush or lake. Lots of fun.

[gpo]

Yesterday I bolted from work to play. I got to the course and #1 was open, but the assistant pro told me an outing with 10 groups had just gone off. I was fine with that. So I played two balls on the front. I quickly caught the group ahead of me. To say they sucked would not be nice to people who suck. Two of the threesome had no business out on a big boy course. Ironically we hit the turn in 2 hrs 10 mins. Of course it seemed slow to me. The big problem was at the turn. Two groups ahead of me the goofballs decide to order burgers instead of hot dogs. They probably spent 20 minutes waiting.

So we got all backed up on 10. It was me then a twosome of women then a couple then another twosome and then a single. I was having fun playing two balls. The last twosome and the single wanted to join me. I said to them we aren't going anywhere it won't make much difference. So I relented and let the twosome of women join me. They were real nice as I talked to them on almost every tee box on the front. They were actually pretty decent golfers. They kept the ball in play and could hit their drives about 150ish. I shot 2 over on the back and they thought I was great.

It ended up taking almost 5 hours to play, but it was all due the time at the turn mostly. People who suck can play fast if they want. Still though why anyone would pay good money to go out and shoot 120 is just crazy. I would take up bowling if I could not break 100.

PS - The women played pretty fast and they putted real fast hardly looking at the putts before hitting.