Do you use a Leaf Rule?

[Bravo]

When playing in the Fall, do you use a Leaf Rule?

If you do, what is the definition??

[Slingblade61]

I have never even heard of such a thing.

So I guess my answer is, no.

[namvet66]

Don't know anything about a leaf rule. Only thing we move out of the path of the ball is a twig or rock found at times under trees (which I spend alot of time under).

Maybe you can explain the Leaf Rule

[Loop]

A guess would be if the ball landed on the fairway, and its on the leaves, that you are allowed to clear out the leaves, and put the ball on the grass. Heck, we have hard enough time finding the ball in autumn...

[Bravo]

OK....

I guess this is an issue for us bc our Fall season lasts 3 months and - according to the type of tree - leaves fall during most of the season. Some fall in September and the laggards are losing their leaves right around Thanksgiving. We play a lot of golf during this timeframe bc July and August are hot as hell and we are grateful for the temps in the 80's and 70's.

Our fairways are kept fairly clear by the grounds crews which have blowers that are pulled behind tractors.

The problem is when you hit a ball in the rough. The rough here is filled with old fashioned hardwood trees - which are shedding leaves.

You hit a ball into a rough area that in the summer would not be a problem. As you drive up in your cart - or approach on foot - you see a sea of a 1000 leaves....with a ball in there somewhere...

IN the interest of expediting play, you've got to move on at some point.

So there are two ways The Leaf Rule can be played:

1) Put a ball down as close as you can to where you think it landed with No penalty.

2) Same as above - With a one stroke penalty.

So this was my question. Use a penalty for lost ball or not??

BTW - if it looks like the ball is going OB - we Force the player to hit a second from the tee for Stroke and Distance. That is not the case here.

Its just that you can hit one 10 feet from the fairway and lose it.....

[Youngun5]

my course is full of hardwood trees, we pretty much play an honors rule, that if you saw the ball stop and have spent a good time searching for it then you get no penalty with a drop as close to where you think it is,

if the ball is questionable in the first place as to going in a hazard or O.B. then we charge a penalty stroke, hope this can help, it gets harder when in a tournament so i can't really help you there because all my tournaments are in the spring

[Rockford35]

Well, this isn't black and white.

It's the courses discretion whether or not to inforce a leaf rule or not. And, it can be implemented in a few ways.

1. If leaves are touching the ball without the ball being visible (this is kind of a grey area, I mean, how can you know the ball is there if you can't see it?), you can either give a free drop (if the course instructs) or the leaves can be moved from where the ball lies so that you can see a part of the ball.

This is all fine and dandy unless you move the ball. If you do, two stroke penalty.

This is the courses choice. Rule 33-8/31.

2. If the ball is visible from any angle in a hazard, you must play it as it lies, no leaf removal. If they cover it outside the hazard, see above.

3. If you in fact lose the ball, Rule 27-1 states that the penalty is stroke and distance.

The course can determine that accumlated leaves are considered Groung Under Repair and therefore you can drop without a penalty.


Now, my question to ponder. If you smash one 350 yards into the trees, into what must be a uge pile of leaves by this time of the year in the fall, can you take a drop if the course allows you to?

Hope this clarifies things.

R35

[Bravo]

Rock:

I didn't need a rules lesson. We are all familiar with them...

If we followed the rules to the letter, everytime someone teed off and the ball flew anywhere into the rough - they'd be hitting a provisional ball. We'd have provisional after provisional and I'd hazard to guess that the number of lost balls would increase bc half the time - the lost ball would be the provisional.

And we don't have a problem with finding balls in hazards. Bright white sand and the maintenance crews do a good job keeping these blown off with hand blowers.

Its just that 2-3 times a round, a shot that goes obviously into an area where the ball is not in a hazard and Not OB - that you would find any other time of the year - is obscured by leaves.

We use Youngun's Honor rule and take a drop without penalty.....

[bdcrowe]

I definitely feel your pain here in Chatt. Bravo. We pretty much leave it at the discression of the player, or the players with wagers on the round. Most of us are (a) all really tight, (b) all really honorable about the game and its rules, and (c) pretty layed back. So, if we know beyond reasonable doubt that the ball would have come to rest in play, we usually say drop one with no penalty. If at all in doubt, take a stroke. With the massive amount of leaves, and the breezes/winds here, I've lost countless balls in the FAIRWAY. So, while it may be technically bending the rules, I feel it abides by the spirit of the game.

[Rockford35]

Bravo,

I wasn't trying to be a keener, just stating the rules.

If you don't play by the rules set out by the course, you are playing outside the rules. And by that, you are cheating on the scorecard. So your question was more of "Do you play within the rules when leaves are on the ground?"

But on any given Sunday, i'm not spending more than 2 minutes to look for a ball. We play "drop another, take one stroke" to meet in a middle ground.

I live in an area of decidious forest. It may not seem like it, but there are lots of trees here. And trees like poplars and elms have lots of foliage. This is always a problem from about the beginning of September to the end of the season.

What about aerated greens? Anyone have thoughts on that?

R35

[DaveE]

My part of Texas has plenty of trees and our rough is usually kept at a perfect length to hide a ball. FWIW we take a stroke and drop even when we know where the ball landed. We only hit provisional when one goes deep or could be OB.

There's almost always a little money riding on every hole and I think taking the penalty stroke keeps people from feeling cheated. That said, if it's just a friendly game, ( no money on the line) and you know about where the ball should be, I don't see any harm in dropping another without penalty.

[Bravo]

Originally Posted by rockford35

Bravo,

I wasn't trying to be a keener, just stating the rules.

If you don't play by the rules set out by the course, you are playing outside the rules. And by that, you are cheating on the scorecard. So your question was more of "Do you play within the rules when leaves are on the ground?"

But on any given Sunday, i'm not spending more than 2 minutes to look for a ball. We play "drop another, take one stroke" to meet in a middle ground.

I live in an area of decidious forest. It may not seem like it, but there are lots of trees here. And trees like poplars and elms have lots of foliage. This is always a problem from about the beginning of September to the end of the season.

What about aerated greens? Anyone have thoughts on that?

R35

Well - just to clarify - we only use this rule in the Fall. If we lose a ball in the rough in other times of the year - we deem it Lost and follow the rules. There is a randomness to losing balls under leaves that I guess we get looser about. Does not seem fair that two balls that seemed to land 20 feet apart - we can find one but not the other. So we bend them - no doubt....

Aerated greens...we make no provision for this. We all usually lose 3-4 strokes due to the holes and bumps but this only lasts a couple of weeks or so....

[Youngun5]

touchy subject, don't get me started on aerated greens and fairways for that matter

[Bravo]

http://www.golfdigest.com/features/i...2closeout.html

[DaveE]

Originally Posted by Bravo

http://www.golfdigest.com/features/i...2closeout.html

That's a good article. Not only for the way it explains the use of the leaf rule but also the way "too much" money can spoil a game. We always bet, but we keep it small enough so no one really gets hurt.