Help with me some one-plane swing theory

[SilverUberXeno]

Minor background:

I've been transitioning to a pure one-plane move over the last few months, and it's finally producing dividends. Had my bout with the hooks until I quieted down my hands, then my bout with blocks (still in that phase, sort of), until I can turn all the way through the ball (was afraid to do this due to the hooks!).

For the most part I'm hitting good shots MOST of the time, now. I've lost a little distance going from the blades to the NP-1's, but I think it'll come with time, once I get more accustomed to how the heads perform. With the blades, I could routinely carry the 5i 190 and roll it past 200. With the NP-1's, it's quite a shot to get 200 out of it. A spinnier flight, I guess. I dunno. Not worried about it.

My issue is with the driver, majorly. And the 3w, minorly. And I think it has to do with a total lack of understanding.

As I understand it, the OPS (one-plane swing) is rotational. There's no lateral movement to speak of. The clubhead moves on a defined plane, or circle, around the chest, which is bent over toward the ball. It's a flat swing on an inverted plane. That's fine and dandy, and I love it.

But with the driver, playing the ball forward takes the ball OFF of the circle. I just can't hit it right, because it seems like I have to move the circle to catch the ball, or reach for it, or lash out at it. I feel like it screws up my swing back trying to get out and hit the ball with the driver. Same goes for 3W- moving it forward seems to take it off the path of the clubhead.

All my other clubs I play so close to the same ball position that it doesn't seem to be an issue. Maybe one ball back for wedges, and one ball forward for my hybrids, if that.

WHAT AM I MISSING HERE?!?!

[TheWOAT]

Hmmm,

D-Plane 101.
Since you brought up the swing plane, realize that the low point in the plane is the point of a dead straight shot if the clubhead were to hit the ball at that point... If the ball was hit before the plane lowpoint, that means that the clubhead was still moving down, and to the right... If the ball was hit after the low point (preferred for a driver) that means that the clubhead was travelling UP and to the LEFT.

Basically you have to "shift the circle" to the right, hit it more from the inside and hit the ball on the way up, or near level. See Hogans 5 Lessons, somehow he had it all figured out, so try a closed stance.

or forget everything I said and play a pull fade.

As for the reaching out part... I have the same problem, and I know the hands should move through the ball moreso than at the ball, but easier said than done... so I setup with the clubhead toe an inch away from the ball and reach out for it...

[TheWOAT]

Oh, and search youtube for Brian Manzella and Driver... his little video on hitting the driver is very good.

[BrandonM7]

Originally Posted by TheWOAT

Oh, and search youtube for Brian Manzella and Driver... his little video on hitting the driver is very good.

Manzella show episode 7 - I like that one. My biggest problem is aggression -- when I can calm down and do everything he says in that vid I can rip it (for me,) but normally I end up trying to swing too hard, come through too shallow, and hit a weak slice.

[Clugnut]

Your missing tee height. If you swing plane is a circle, and you have a defined bottom of the arc, then moving the ball forward would require the ball to move up. Like on a tee.

Buy some 3 1/4 inch tees, tee it high, and hit some monster high launching low spin bombs.

[SilverUberXeno]

I've been working on that, Jon. It's just... I can't visualize how to get the clubhead on the ball without manipulating things with my hands. It seems like the club should be coming back around me by the time it gets to the ball. Ain't no good! Or maybe I should just accept that and adjust to it. But if I do, then I'm always gonna be coming from the outside.

I think I need to almost change my pivot to my left leg for driver. That makes sense in my head. Keep my head back where it normally is, but move everything around the left side instead of the spine.

[Bignose]

I have found with the driver that I swing at a spot a few inches behind the ball and since the ball is teed up and forward, the ball just happens to get in the way of the natural arc. It took a little while to figure out where to swing at and where to tee the ball up at to make it work, but in the end it seems to work.

[BrandonM7]

Originally Posted by SilverUberXeno

I've been working on that, Jon. It's just... I can't visualize how to get the clubhead on the ball without manipulating things with my hands. It seems like the club should be coming back around me by the time it gets to the ball. Ain't no good! Or maybe I should just accept that and adjust to it. But if I do, then I'm always gonna be coming from the outside.

Spot on. It's a big circle - if you aren't screwing up that circle, to hit the ball past low point the clubhead will be moving back toward you. Look at the last chapter or Hogan's 5 lessons - see that diagram about ball and foot position? Right foot back. He's tilting the circle to the right. He says it's for a different reason, but whateva. The only way to hit the ball straight when hitting it past low point is to hit a pull if that circle isn't screwed up in some way. So aim right with the ball a little closer to you and hit a pull, or accept the fade if your brain can't stand to point the face along the plane, or drive yourself crazy trying to make that circle an oval. That last one will take a lot of timing, though.

[Pa Jayhawk]

This could possibly help
One Plane and Two Plane Golf Swings

Last I checked I had a one-plane swing. May sound funny, but I don't really think about it and didn't know that I had converted until a few years ago when an instructor told me. Your logic sounds about right, and when I tend to hit my driver poorly it is usually that logic that I have found has me moving to far away from the ball. Check to make sure you are not extending your arms out as part of the process. I do play the ball a bit further back from my left heel, otherwise my control get erratic. Usually high hooks or sometimes big bananas starting to the left

In other words, don't make your arms part of or an extension to that circle. That would be more of a "Natural Swing" from what little I understand of the Natural Swing.

[Clugnut]

I think you infected me. I couldn't hit driver for crap today, and all I could think about was this thread.

[TheWOAT]

I dont get the one-plane vs two plane thing... You could have a an upright, two plane, setup, then drop your arms in the transition to more of a one plane impact... Or you could use a more "Big Muscle" swing from either setup position, or be a more Armsy swing, from either position. You could have an armsy, upright, One plane swing, or a rotary swing, hunched over setup, and have a two plane swing... too many exceptions to this "plane truth" deal.

[Bignose]

Originally Posted by TheWOAT

I dont get the one-plane vs two plane thing... You could have a an upright, two plane, setup, then drop your arms in the transition to more of a one plane impact... Or you could use a more "Big Muscle" swing from either setup position, or be a more Armsy swing, from either position. You could have an armsy, upright, One plane swing, or a rotary swing, hunched over setup, and have a two plane swing... too many exceptions to this "plane truth" deal.

All in all, I agree with this sentiment. Firstly, there are almost no pure one-planers or pure two-planers, most have mixed aspects of both. Secondly, Hardy's books are gross misrepresentations of some aspects of the swings. I only know the 1-p half of the texts well, but there are some blatantly wrong pieces of information in there, about Hogan's swing and the like.

All that said, however, I think that in the whole, Hardy's books have been a good thing for the golf community. Hardy didn't discover the differences in the swings, but he brought attention back to it again, and got people talking and thinking about it. I think that it did re-awaken many people to the risk of 'cherry-picking' the tip-of-the-day and trying to patch it into their swing -- that is, that the tip-of-the-day may be the complete opposite of what they are (or should be) trying to do with their swing. That there are some fundamentals in setup and the like that are better for each flavor of swing.

But, it is undeniable that there are more commonalities between the two than differences. Both, when done right, are still driven by the large muscles and a weight transition, just different in the degree. The only way to hit powerful straight shots is to have the club on plane and hand ahead of the ball at impact, and both swings, again when done right, deliver that exact same thing.

[Stanters]

Originally Posted by TheWOAT

Oh, and search youtube for Brian Manzella and Driver... his little video on hitting the driver is very good.

A huge thank you for recommending this - if by some miracle we ever meet you will be buying exactly 0 beers. It helped so much - head behind the ball makes such a difference.

[mddubya]

Originally Posted by Stanters

A huge thank you for recommending this - if by some miracle we ever meet you will be buying exactly 0 beers. It helped so much - head behind the ball makes such a difference.

+1, great tips in this video. Thanks for suggesting it.

[Pa Jayhawk]

Originally Posted by TheWOAT

I dont get the one-plane vs two plane thing... You could have a an upright, two plane, setup, then drop your arms in the transition to more of a one plane impact... Or you could use a more "Big Muscle" swing from either setup position, or be a more Armsy swing, from either position. You could have an armsy, upright, One plane swing, or a rotary swing, hunched over setup, and have a two plane swing... too many exceptions to this "plane truth" deal.

This is probably why as I mentioned in my prior post that I do not really think about it and just do what feel natural. Which according to what people see is a one plane swing. Even when I tried to read about it after being told that was the case with my swing, trying to actually concentrate on any of the keys just screwed me up and didn't feel natural.

For me, the only advantage I saw to knowing is when my swing felt uncomfortable and when I found out I was on one-plane, was when I started addressing the fundamentals from when I learned to play, and it felt very unnatural and led to poor results to concentrate on let the club fall back on plane as was characteristic of the 2-plane swing I learned.

So while I agree with your observation, I also think it is important to know which one you primarily do, so that if you need to address the fundamentals of your swing, you know which method to address. To me, I basically just follow Hogan's Fundamentals, and possibly the reason I resemble a one plane swing. I figure outside of the fundamentals, the rest can sort itself out as long as using those fundamentals feels comfortable and natural. Where my issues were caused by following to differing interpretations of fundamentals.

The beginning of each year I like to do a refresher on my fundamentals, and I am good with whatever plane Hogan's Lessons will lead to, as it is the easiest I have found to find that comfort zone.