what would you do?

[EnglishGolfer]

A good friend of mine took up golf about 18months ago and is making reasonable progress. However from day one he has gripped the club with the his hands the wrong way round (left below right in a right handed set up). I tried to get him to change before it became irreversible but he ignored me (as most do and with good reason). The thing is that although he can't hit any kind of wood, he hits his 5 iron upto 240 yards and I'm not exaggerating here. Obviously this doesn't happen every time but he comfortably carries it 210yds.

How can i get him to change when he hits such a huge ball that everyone gasps at? Should I even try?

I know he wants to get to single figures but i think this is really holding him back and keeping him in the mid 20's.

I've only ever known one other person play like this and he got down to 7 and was also a big'ish hitter, but that was all he had.

[Kilted Arab]

Originally Posted by EnglishGolfer

A good friend of mine took up golf about 18months ago and is making reasonable progress. However from day one he has gripped the club with the his hands the wrong way round (left below right in a right handed set up). I tried to get him to change before it became irreversible but he ignored me (as most do and with good reason). The thing is that although he can't hit any kind of wood, he hits his 5 iron upto 240 yards and I'm not exaggerating here. Obviously this doesn't happen every time but he comfortably carries it 210yds.

How can i get him to change when he hits such a huge ball that everyone gasps at? Should I even try?

I know he wants to get to single figures but i think this is really holding him back and keeping him in the mid 20's.

I've only ever known one other person play like this and he got down to 7 and was also a big'ish hitter, but that was all he had.

Buy him a lesson or two for his birthday or as some sort of treat - let the pro do your dirty work

[Loop]

If you can't convince him, don't.
Stubborn people are scared of change. And he may be playing for the fun of it.
Or get him the Hogan book. Full of pictures

[EnglishGolfer]

Originally Posted by Loop

If you can't convince him, don't.
Stubborn people are scared of change. And he may be playing for the fun of it.
Or get him the Hogan book. Full of pictures

It just frustrates me that I know he could be so much better than he is and he could enjoy the game much more. he does get a bit perturbed when he starts knocking it all over the place and into every hazard but then he starts blaming things that I know aren't the cause. I think the lesson idea might be a good one that KA proposed but the big down side there is that it's going to cost me money for them to repeat what I have said (and I am a very tight skinflint indeed)

[Kilted Arab]

Originally Posted by EnglishGolfer

I think the lesson idea might be a good one that KA proposed but the big down side there is that it's going to cost me money for them to repeat what I have said (and I am a very tight skinflint indeed)

You English are tighter than us Scots and that's a fact!

Club together with his mrs/gf/other friends.

[Pa Jayhawk]

I have seen one other golfer play with an overlap grip, and he did play to a 3, so I'm not sure I see the harm. The other guy I knew did in fact hit his woods and driver well. Maybe they know something that the rest of us don't.

I'm not sure I would try. If he ever reaches a point where cannot move on without switching, then he'll have to try at that point. If anything, I like the lesson idea, coming from a pro may mean more, or the pro may be able to explain the in's and out's. Then again, the pro may say that if he can hit a 5 iron consistently 240 yards, then why mess with a good thing and just try and help him with his woods. Approach him in the sense that he may really want to take a few lessons with his woods, because if he can learn to hit them anything like his irons, he may really be able to go somewhere with golf, which does not sound like a lie. I've always heard from pros that it makes for healthy relationships to leave the instructing to them, so if there is any hatred that results, it is directed at the pro's. Is there really any evidence that if you can hit a club with an overlap grip, there is really a downside? I also know alot of people who can not hit woods with a normal grip.

Just my two cents.

[Ravenous Bugblatter Beast]

Where's he losing strokes? Is it because he's hitting everything offline, or is he losing them in the area of the short game?

The big thing about hitting crosshanded is that it tends shorten the distance, which is why in baseball you always teach kids the correct position of the hands, although as I fiddle about here, I can see that it might not be as much a problem getting a good coil and swing with a crosshanded grip.

The one thing that strikes me while trying it is that the wrists seem more prone to getting lose, and moving, which could make it more difficult to the keep the clubface on line.

[Augster]

I just don't get it. How does something like this happen?


I'd just tell him to "Do what the pros do." Simple eh? Woods, Els, Hogan, Hagen, Jones, Nicklaus, they've all had real trouble shooting deep into the 60's. If there was a better way, someone would have figured it out by now wouldn't you think? The game has only been around for, what, 400 years? 600?

CAN he play that way? Of course he can. I think there's a dude on the Nationwide Tour that plays that way. SHOULD he? Absolutely not. Why make the game tougher than it already is?

Do what the pros do.

[EnglishGolfer]

Originally Posted by Ravenous Bugblatter Beast

Where's he losing strokes? Is it because he's hitting everything offline, or is he losing them in the area of the short game?

The big thing about hitting crosshanded is that it tends shorten the distance, which is why in baseball you always teach kids the correct position of the hands, although as I fiddle about here, I can see that it might not be as much a problem getting a good coil and swing with a crosshanded grip.

The one thing that strikes me while trying it is that the wrists seem more prone to getting lose, and moving, which could make it more difficult to the keep the clubface on line.

His directional golf is very hit and miss (mainly miss). Oddly though his distance, chipping and putting are very good for a big lad who is new'ish to the game. He has never done an air shot in front of me from day one so i thought he was going to get very good and very quickly. But now he seems to have plateued (speling?) and he is going round consistently in about 22 over which is very disappointing for both of us because he wants to challenge me without receiving any shots (he is very competitive as am I)

[bdcrowe]

Funny Loop should mention Hogan...

Hogan gripped this way in the beginning (right hand-low). He took the effort to change because it had way more drawbacks than any good that could come from it.

I wouldn't fret too much about it. You have done your duty by mentioning it, now it's in his court. I would just stop worrying and start a betting with him on the course.

Personally, if I worried about every swing defect in my friend's game, I'd never sleep. Relax and take his money until he wises up. (And maybe put the $$ away for his lessons?)

[Ravenous Bugblatter Beast]

Originally Posted by EnglishGolfer

His directional golf is very hit and miss (mainly miss). Oddly though his distance, chipping and putting are very good for a big lad who is new'ish to the game. He has never done an air shot in front of me from day one so i thought he was going to get very good and very quickly. But now he seems to have plateued (speling?) and he is going round consistently in about 22 over which is very disappointing for both of us because he wants to challenge me without receiving any shots (he is very competitive as am I)

Okay, well if his direction is off, it's happening in a couple of ways, or a combination thereof, I'd guess. If he's getting the distance, he's hitting it solid, but if the direction is variable, the angle of the clubface or the angle of attack by the swing plane is loose somehow.

I tried swinging crosshanded last night with an actual club, and decided that the wrists breaking down shouldn't be too much trouble, my concern became more about keeping a good swing plane, but that might be peculiar to me. I have a tendency to cast out anyhow due to my right shoulder problems, but I found it very easy to make an over-the-top move with my hands in a crosshanded grip.

And I remember the serious troubles I had getting my ball to go in the direction I wanted when my over-the-top issue was at its worst. I could get slices, toe squirters, heel shanks, attempts to close the clubface with a resulting pull hook, and other associated nastiness.

But here's my bit of advice if you get the time to look to see if he's got an over-the-top problem with this swing and grip. Now this might not work, and it's peculiar to my issue.

When I make my transition at the top of the backswing, I have to do a slightly altered sequence to avoid an over-the-top move. Instead of firing with my legs and hips, I try to be aware of dropping the club to the inside. My first move on my downswing needs to be with dropping my arms, then my legs and hips begin to fire. When I do that successfully, I get the club to drop in the proper slot and manage to hit straight or with a slight fade which I don't mind. It's the way I have to force my right arm to stay in close enough to my body, which is otherwise a problem because it wants to stay out since the internal rotation isn't like a normal shoulder.

[tdaniels]

of course you want him to be competitive now. It just makes beating him more dramatic when you take his beer or money (whatever you play for), but when he starts beating you its not gonna be much fun.

My advice is as follows:

Dont mess with his grip, if anything screw him up some more!
Trust me this will be the best thing for YOU in the long run.

[EnglishGolfer]

Originally Posted by Ravenous Bugblatter Beast

I tried swinging crosshanded last night with an actual club, and decided that the wrists breaking down shouldn't be too much trouble, my concern became more about keeping a good swing plane, but that might be peculiar to me. I have a tendency to cast out anyhow due to my right shoulder problems, but I found it very easy to make an over-the-top move with my hands in a crosshanded grip.

Wow, thanks for going to such an effort. Your words have been heeded, but they did however come second to those of TDaniels seeing as my mate more often than not takes my poker money!

[EnglishGolfer]

Originally Posted by tdaniels

of course you want him to be competitive now. It just makes beating him more dramatic when you take his beer or money (whatever you play for), but when he starts beating you its not gonna be much fun.

My advice is as follows:

Dont mess with his grip, if anything screw him up some more!
Trust me this will be the best thing for YOU in the long run.

Consider it done! Cheers mate, all that namby pamby "consideration of others" was just holding me back. Thanks for the shot of reality.

[No Knack Hack]

Originally Posted by EnglishGolfer

. . . The thing is that although he can't hit any kind of wood, he hits his 5 iron upto 240 yards and I'm not exaggerating here. Obviously this doesn't happen every time but he comfortably carries it 210yds.

How can i get him to change when he hits such a huge ball that everyone gasps at? Should I even try?

Maybe he could teach me to hit a 5 iron 210-240??
How does he do with a 3 iron? 250+? Who needs a driver if you can hit irons farther than most golfers hit their drivers?

Drivers: Most new golfers can't hit drivers. It took me about 4 years before I could use a driver with any assurance. But then I'm not naturally talented as your friend seems to be.

While nearly all excellent golfers have good form, approximating the classic swing of the Pros, periodically people with unothodox swings do well, too.

About trying to get him to change: You had your chance and he wasn't interested. It will be up to him to learn proper form, not you.