Question about Ryder Cup.....

[P_102]

I'm helping to put together a fun tournament in Ryder Cup fashion. I'm wondering about team selection for each event, ie; how the captains select the playing partners and opponants. I always thought that captain A would put up a "team" and captain B would select one of his teams to go against them, alternating which captain starts. What I found on the net so far is this:

Each team captain submits the order of play for his team. The lists from each captain are matched resulting in the pairings. Players in pairings can be modified by the team captains at any time prior to the beginning of a match. Thus pairings are subject to change and should not be considered final until play begins for a particular match.

The above (sorry about the bold, above is a cut/paste and now I can't get back to norm) makes little sense to me since the networks always show pairings several hours before the events...

??

P_102

[Augster]

As I remember it, it is as written. Both the captains make up the order and just post it without being able to see where, and who, the other captain is playing in what spot.

I think they have all the other gibberish in there, the subject to change clause, in case of injury. As far as I can remember no captain has changed his order after submitting just to get better matchups. Traditionally, I believe, captains are "stuck" with their choices.

The President's Cup on the other hand has the captains sit at a table across from each other and pick each team to face the team the previous captain picked and they alternate who has to pick first.

SO the Int'l Captain goes first and takes, say, Els/Singh to lead off, then the US captain puts out Woods/Furyk. Then the US goes again and sends out DiMarco/Love and the Int'l Captain can counter with Weir/Maruyama etc. etc. etc.

The President's Cup was founded on the Ryder Cup's shortcomings and, all-in-all, is a better tournament. Unfortunately, it doesn't have the tradition of the Ryder Cup and is always treated like it's red-headed step-child. The President's Cup, first and foremost, has the strategy of picking the matchups which is great theater. In the Ryder Cup, the captain has to "guess" and is basically picking blind. The President's Cup is supposed to "always" have a winner and thus never share the trophy, unless the idiots upstairs decide to tee off at 1:00 PM local time on Sunday for some reason when they know the sun goes down at 6:00PM and the entire broadcast is going to be on tape delay anyway. Absolutely no time for an extended playoff. The President's cup is set up to have more players play more often whereas in the Ryder Cup the Captain can "hide" his weakest players. The President's Cup is designed to allow the Best of the Rest that the Ryder Cup for some idiotic reason still excludes.

In my opinion, the President's Cup should have a full ROTW team instead of a Best of the Rest team. Thus folks could double on the Int'l Ryder Cup team and the President's Cup team if they are high enough in the World Rankings. ALL of the US top players get to play both, so excluding guys like Sergio, Clarke and Harrington from eligibility in the President's Cup just doesn't make much sense to me.

Finally, as long as I have my soapbox out, during Ryder Cup and President's Cup weeks you will always hear the announcers say that these events are designed to relate better to the viewer. A form of play that most of us weekenders do like the 2-man best ball. It's a refreshing change from every man for himself. Though, alternate shot I've only played ONCE.

If the Presidents Cup REALLY wants to relate to the average weekend golfer's form of play, then this is MY suggestion for the playoff. A 4-man scramble. Each captain picks his best 4 players, they ditch their caddies and hop in carts. First team to blink loses. It would really be a TEAM thing going on. The captain could really be hands-on deciding on the team order on the tee, from the fairway, and on the green. He could tell the first hitting just to hit a 3-wood out there down the middle and let the other 3 bomb away.

Granted, the playoff could go more than a few holes because each team would always birdie. SO it would come down to making a clutch hole-out or an eagle putt. Or maybe snugging one on a long par 3 where the other team is just far enough out not to make the putt for birdie.

EXCITEMENT, in other words.

I would say that 99% of folks that have ever picked up a club have played in a scramble format at least once in their lives. How many have played alternate shot? I bet less than 1%. Why not play a format that EVERYONE has played?

Especially to decide the entire TEAM competition. Having Els and Tiger duke it out was just a stupid way to decide the fate of 22 other golfers who got the competition to a tied state over the weekend. Then it got too dark and it got hokey. A better way would be to take your 3 top TEAMS and play two-man best ball and have a "race to 7" holes won. That way, with 6 players playing for each team, at least HALF of each team is represented.

I would suggest the Scramble format to the PGA Tour itself, but I can never find an email address that actually gets responded to.

Sorry for the tangent.

[Kilted Arab]

Originally Posted by Augster

The President's Cup was founded on the Ryder Cup's shortcomings and, all-in-all, is a better tournament. Unfortunately, it doesn't have the tradition of the Ryder Cup and is always treated like it's red-headed step-child. The President's Cup, first and foremost, has the strategy of picking the matchups which is great theater. In the Ryder Cup, the captain has to "guess" and is basically picking blind. The President's Cup is supposed to "always" have a winner and thus never share the trophy, unless the idiots upstairs decide to tee off at 1:00 PM local time on Sunday for some reason when they know the sun goes down at 6:00PM and the entire broadcast is going to be on tape delay anyway. Absolutely no time for an extended playoff. The President's cup is set up to have more players play more often whereas in the Ryder Cup the Captain can "hide" his weakest players. The President's Cup is designed to allow the Best of the Rest that the Ryder Cup for some idiotic reason still excludes.

In my opinion, the President's Cup should have a full ROTW team instead of a Best of the Rest team. Thus folks could double on the Int'l Ryder Cup team and the President's Cup team if they are high enough in the World Rankings. ALL of the US top players get to play both, so excluding guys like Sergio, Clarke and Harrington from eligibility in the President's Cup just doesn't make much sense to me.

Finally, as long as I have my soapbox out, during Ryder Cup and President's Cup weeks you will always hear the announcers say that these events are designed to relate better to the viewer. A form of play that most of us weekenders do like the 2-man best ball. It's a refreshing change from every man for himself. Though, alternate shot I've only played ONCE.

Sorry for the tangent.

Wow, quite a reply!

Here's my tuppence worth as a Brit/European.

I don't give a stuff about the President Cup and don't know anyone who does. I can fully understand Americans being excited about it as it's a national thing - waving the flag etc. I think that's where the idea of a ROTW thing falls down. It would be more a case of "lets spank the yanks" rather than "come on ROTW, we love you". There's an American identity to cheer for, there is a Euro identity to cheer for - but a ROTW identity? Nah, leaves me cold. Besides, the Yanks would never win...

[Dave Ireland]

Originally Posted by Kilted Arab

Wow, quite a reply!

Here's my tuppence worth as a Brit/European.

I don't give a stuff about the President Cup and don't know anyone who does. I can fully understand Americans being excited about it as it's a national thing - waving the flag etc. I think that's where the idea of a ROTW thing falls down. It would be more a case of "lets spank the yanks" rather than "come on ROTW, we love you". There's an American identity to cheer for, there is a Euro identity to cheer for - but a ROTW identity? Nah, leaves me cold. Besides, the Yanks would never win...

What about Kilted if there was a tourney USA v The Axis of Evil .. yet rid of the food for oil program and give'em mizuno's Prov1's and a David Leadbetter video. Winner takes an oilfield, and save a lot of those civilian and soliders lives.

Begs the question tho, who would ya be shoutin for ? ... btw any further pics from the Dubai gig

[P_102]

Augster, I agree 100% on the Scramble format, that would be exciting.

BTW, found another piece on the net that stated the opposite of what I posted above, that the teams are set (no substitutes, etc) once the captains pick them. Oh well, maybe we'll do it Presidents Cup style, I like that idea.

P_102