bloody cheats

[longshot]

we have had a problem for a while now with members not playing the monthly medals and so on and then appearing for the the big comps.I play almost all the comps and my handicap is adjusted accordingly recently i shot my best ever round in a comp gross 72 -1 for 42 points and this guy comes in with 47 points off an 18 handicap(one winner no divisions).
He had not played a comp for a year i dont mind not winning but that is just cheating.Ok every one gets a one off round occasionally but i found out in his little crowd on a sat morning he plays off 10.Golf is a game of trust he has now been cut (after a polite chat with him) to 12 which he dident complain about.How do you guys handle this sort of thing at your clubs?

[Bravo]

47 points off an 18? Is this Stableford??

[longshot]

47 points off an 18? Is this Stableford??

Yes he shot -11 under his official handicap

[Woosey]

we have a rule at our club where you MUST play 5 competitions before you can enter a major, which is fair enough

[Bravo]

longshot:

We've talked here quite a bit about the differences between the US and UK handicapping systems. The US system is based around an objective/mathematical model whereby players are expected to turn in adjusted scores after each round...these scores are entered into a nationwide handicapping system called GHIN. The GHIN system computes an index for each player that can be taken to any course in the country and then translated into a Course Handicap, based on the relative difficulty of that course. That is the players handicap for that course on that day. The GHIN indexes are recalculated once a month. The GHIN index is calculated as the 10 lowest of the 20 most recent scores.

In the U.S. - in a practical sense - there is no 'club handicap secretary' who is using a combination of objective data and subjective judgement/bias to provide a handicap to a player. It is purely mathematical based on the index produced by the computer.

Obviously, a player can still cheat like hell through a variety of means...failing to turn in low scores, turning in a higher score than actual etc...and we see plenty of this over here.

So how do clubs police it? Our place compares the names on the "starter sheet" with the names of players who turned in scores for a given day to insure that all golfers who played on a given day did indeed turn in a score. This does prevent a player from simply not recording a low round. ON the other hand, it is very simple for them to simply turn in a higher score than actual if they really want to cheat...so it is not perfect.

[Dave Ireland]

we have had a problem for a while now with members not playing the monthly medals and so on and then appearing for the the big comps.I play almost all the comps and my handicap is adjusted accordingly recently i shot my best ever round in a comp gross 72 -1 for 42 points and this guy comes in with 47 points off an 18 handicap(one winner no divisions).
He had not played a comp for a year i dont mind not winning but that is just cheating.Ok every one gets a one off round occasionally but i found out in his little crowd on a sat morning he plays off 10.Golf is a game of trust he has now been cut (after a polite chat with him) to 12 which he dident complain about.How do you guys handle this sort of thing at your clubs?

Had 1 of those days myself last year longshot, played an 18 h/c in matchplay semi final - lost 6&5 I was 4 over at 13 - he had 27 points on front nine ... found out later that his h/c was suspended ... he wasn't playin medals in our club but was cleaning up in open 4balls elsewhere without returning his scores

[Woosey]

cant understand why people would want to do this? aren't they embarrassed about it? the whole point of the handicap is to make the game fair!

I always give my cards in, unless im having a REALLY bad round in which case i just N/R however i would never N/R to make sure my handicap stayed higher, im proud of my handicap!

[Dave Ireland]

cant understand why people would want to do this? aren't they embarrassed about it? the whole point of the handicap is to make the game fair!

I always give my cards in, unless im having a REALLY bad round in which case i just N/R however i would never N/R to make sure my handicap stayed higher, im proud of my handicap!

Agreed Woosey, a h/c should be viewed like a credit card limit, a challenge to be broken !!

[Eracer]

One of the saddest things in life is people who strive to win at all cost, and think nothing of throwing integrity out the window. Cheating is the truest mark of a loser. Let them play their silly games. Let them take the money. You can't stop them and you can't shoot them. So just laugh and realize that the honest man is the winner, in the truest sense of the word.

[Pa Jayhawk]

I guess I may be one of the few that would need a little more information here. I guess this is the case because I have been in similar situations where I shot a Net 56 in a League Tournament and a Net 60 in Club Championship. I have also had numerous other rounds in the Net 50's.

I guess my question is this, you say he plays off a 10 based on what his friends say. Does he have 2 handicaps, does he sandbag and just not record his low scores and calculate the real ones at home, or is he just improving??? For example. My Net 56, and alot of my other net 50's, it was my second year. I went from playing 1 round a week to roughly 5. Although my handicap was a 25, I played to about a 15-18 when I shot in the net 50's. My handicap just did not have time to adjust and was constantly going down. The net 60 in the club championship on the other hand was just a good round where I played off a 15, which is the lowest I ever had, and shot the best round I ever had. Unfortunately I followed up on the 2nd day by carding a 62 on the front nine, a 33 on the back and finishing with a 95.

Do I feel bad that I took net low, he!! no, I put some serious time into improving and it payed off, I recorded every round and every stroke.

I guess what I am saying is that based on the information you've provided, he may in fact have been cheating, but I see no evidence that he cheated. Did he in fact say his real handicap was a 10?? Maybe I just didn't understand this part, you said you to 12, is that what he said he played too??? I guess what I am saying is that if he didn't acknowledge that his real handicap was a 10, then I guess the whole issue of the honesty and trust of golf falls on you, and if you believe he cheated simply because he shot a stellar round, then you should look at the other circumstances, or your own credibility will be what is in question.

If I misread this, and he did in fact acknowledge he played to a 10, then you have every right to be pissed, if he didn't then I actually feel you owe him an appology for bringing it into question.

[pball5156]

One of the saddest things in life is people who strive to win at all cost, and think nothing of throwing integrity out the window. Cheating is the truest mark of a loser. Let them play their silly games. Let them take the money. You can't stop them and you can't shoot them. So just laugh and realize that the honest man is the winner, in the truest sense of the word.

Quoted, because it deserves to be quoted.

[longshot]

I guess I may be one of the few that would need a little more information here. I guess this is the case because I have been in similar situations where I shot a Net 56 in a League Tournament and a Net 60 in Club Championship. I have also had numerous other rounds in the Net 50's.

I guess my question is this, you say he plays off a 10 based on what his friends say. Does he have 2 handicaps, does he sandbag and just not record his low scores and calculate the real ones at home, or is he just improving??? For example. My Net 56, and alot of my other net 50's, it was my second year. I went from playing 1 round a week to roughly 5. Although my handicap was a 25, I played to about a 15-18 when I shot in the net 50's. My handicap just did not have time to adjust and was constantly going down. The net 60 in the club championship on the other hand was just a good round where I played off a 15, which is the lowest I
ever had, and shot the best round I ever had. Unfortunately I followed up on the 2nd day by carding a 62 on the front nine, a 33 on the back and finishing with a 95.

Do I feel bad that I took net low, he!! no, I put some serious time into improving and it payed off, I recorded every round and every stroke.

I guess what I am saying is that based on the information you've provided, he may in fact have been cheating, but I see no evidence that he cheated. Did he in fact say his real handicap was a 10?? Maybe I just didn't understand this part, you said you to 12, is that what he said he played too??? I guess what I am saying is that if he didn't acknowledge that his real handicap was a 10, then I guess the whole issue of the honesty and trust of golf falls on you, and if you believe he cheated simply because he shot a stellar round, then you should look at the other circumstances, or your own credibility will be what is in question.

If I misread this, and he did in fact acknowledge he played to a 10, then you have every right to be pissed, if he didn't then I actually feel you owe him an appology for bringing it into question.

What i said was in his 4 ball swindle on a saturday he plays off 10(and they play for money) his official club handicap is 18 this is because he does not play comps and does not hand cards in for adjustment.
I could understand maybe 3 strokes difference between the two as some people get nervous in comps.I play off 2 in the sunday swindle and 5 in comps this is because the swindle removes 2 strokes from everyones handicap and if you shoot 33 points or more 1 stroke is removed for the next week.This guy plays to 10 on a regular basis no genuine 18 handicaper can do that i dont care how much he practises.
I can shoot sub par rounds but i play off 5 and have the skill to do that when i play a good round if i am with a member i hand my card in.I understand what you are saying that maybe his handicap was not coming down quick enough but he had not been handing cards in so no handicap adjustments were made.Also why would he accept being cut to 12 if he did not think he could play to it?I hope this makes it clearer.

[Pa Jayhawk]

What i said was in his 4 ball swindle on a saturday he plays off 10(and they play for money)
...
Also why would he accept being cut to 12 if he did not think he could play to it?I hope this makes it clearer.

Sorry, I just wanted to clarify what you originally said. I understand your frustration, but see a big difference in declaring as his index as 10 for money, and his friends simply saying that is what he plays too on the weekends.

With the initial comment about being "cut to 12", I didn't fully understand the context of what you meant.

Golf is a game of trust he has now been cut (after a polite chat with him) to 12 which he dident complain about.How do you guys handle this sort of thing at your clubs?

I would agree, if the guy plays to a 10 for money, doesn't hand in his cards and admits to this, and then only accepts being cut to a 12 after a confrontation, I too would question his credibility. Again, sorry my bad interpretation, I didn't understand the circumstances.

I guess my thoughts would be that if he admits to not recording his scores, he should be excluded from tournament play, and this being the case I think Eracer said it better than I could.

[longshot]

Sorry, I just wanted to clarify what you originally said. I understand your frustration, but see a big difference in declaring as his index as 10 for money, and his friends simply saying that is what he plays too on the weekends.

With the initial comment about being "cut to 12", I didn't fully understand the context of what you meant.



I would agree, if the guy plays to a 10 for money, doesn't hand in his cards and admits to this, and then only accepts being cut to a 12 after a confrontation, I too would question his credibility. Again, sorry my bad interpretation, I didn't understand the circumstances.

I guess my thoughts would be that if he admits to not recording his scores, he should be excluded from tournament play, and this being the case I think Eracer said it better than I could.

No problem i see now you got it.He is not the only one others have been noted and will be banned from comps unless the cards start coming in for adjustment and they enter the monthly medals.

[mediaguru]

This type of thing is precisely why I REFUSE to play in any "net" games.