The FLOP

[The master]

[quote=Power Fade]Adam - Whats your handicap?

Why do I ask? Because I have seen your swing in PUTFILE and would suggest you are a 16 at best. I wouldn't advise you to hit the FLOP unless you're 5 or less. Why? Because even for a Tour Pro it's a low % shot for success. It's such a high tariff shot for them, let alone us.



Don't hit a FLOP if you are less than 5? Based on what excactly? I play with a guy of 12 handicap some 8 shots higher than me, and he can probably play a flop shot better than me. Yes the Flop is a risk reward shot, but I believe if it is the shot required and it you are capable of playign the shot you should try it even if it is a low % success shot.

[Power Fade]

[quote=The master]

Originally Posted by Power Fade

Adam - Whats your handicap?

Why do I ask? Because I have seen your swing in PUTFILE and would suggest you are a 16 at best. I wouldn't advise you to hit the FLOP unless you're 5 or less. Why? Because even for a Tour Pro it's a low % shot for success. It's such a high tariff shot for them, let alone us.



Don't hit a FLOP if you are less than 5? Based on what excactly? I play with a guy of 12 handicap some 8 shots higher than me, and he can probably play a flop shot better than me. Yes the Flop is a risk reward shot, but I believe if it is the shot required and it you are capable of playign the shot you should try it even if it is a low % success shot.

Based on your grammar!

[The master]

Originally Posted by Power Fade

Based on your grammar!

Ok, my grammar is fine. Really you have to reply with something better than that.

You come onto this website clearly having no knowledge on golf. Then you criticize everyone's posts, and telling lies about what golf courses you have played, then asking people to PM you. Please grow up. You seem like you are just here to cause trouble.

[ezra76]

I play the flop very well and people always ask "What the hell did you do there, that looked really strange?". I literally face the target. I'm talking feet, chest, everything straightforward. The ball is on my right side maybe halfway on the outide of my right foot. I have the face of my 60* wedge wide open. I take maybe a half swing back at most(feeling like I'm reaching back for it) and swing around my body. I can hit one 30-40ft. high that drops and lands like a beanbag from 40yds. I have just started working on this shot using my 54* wedge also. I love flops, I hit one a few weeks ago to an elevated green 15 yards with almost a 5 yd. slice on it to avoid a small branch. It is just awesome for a severely elevated green or getting over a bunker with ridiculously little green to work with. I can't remember where the heck I learned it but I'll try to dig it up. I should video it one of these days.

[VtDivot]

I use it all the time - very usefull for mountain golf, with tiny rock like greens

[Pa Jayhawk]

I use a flop a great deal, and I certainly do not play anywhere near single digits. I too play on mountain courses and would play a heck of alot worse if not for the flop shot. It is just a matter of practice and has nothing to do with handicap, just like chipping and putting. Although common sense in knowing when to use it and not get carried away is certainly important, in the same sense in owning and using a LW. Most people think only single digit handicaps should use a LW, but if you take the time to practice, and learn when not to use it then it will serve anyone well. I personally find he flop alot less risky and easier to control than trying to get the ball to check, especially out of rough where it is fairly difficult to generate enough spin, or on elevated greens. Although I usually do this with my 56* out of the rough, tighter lies and from the fairway I will use a 60* on occasion with 8* of bounce, but it does not require opening up the face a great deal with the 60*, so I guess I probably do still get some of the spin to help. I also find with the shape of the greens this time of the year, it is hard to get the ball to check even from the fairway. Not only is the low bounce a possible issue, but you may find it better to use a heavier club. My original LW was much lighter with a higher bounce, which made it harder to control and a recipe for disaster. I took it out of my bag after too long. After moving up here and playing the courses up here, I decided I needed one again. I actually had no real intention of using it for flops, but with the added weight it was easier to control and made the flop off of fairways and tighter lies an option.

I actually think the weight of the club has as much influence as the bounce for controlled shots.

[dave.]

Sorry,but if you are playing the flop all the time you are most likely choosing the wrong shot,a low percentage shot as well.

[Pa Jayhawk]

Originally Posted by dave.

Sorry,but if you are playing the flop all the time you are most likely choosing the wrong shot,a low percentage shot as well.

Certainly not all the time, but a great deal. It depends on the circumstances, but the thought of using a flop shot certainly crosses my mind a few times a round. Whether I choose to use it depends on the lie and whether I see a better option. If my ball is sitting up slightly in the rough and I have a bunker to cross with the pin cut close to the bunker, I will most likely be using a flop. This is in no way a rare occurance on the courses I play. I guess I would say that once, possibly twice a round is a "great deal" considering most people I play with have never used one over the course of 20 rounds, some have never done so in their life.

Hence the reason I mentioned "Although common sense in knowing when to use it and not get carried away is certainly important,"

[Davebud]

In my mind the flop goes as high or at least nearly as high as it goes long, is this right? As opposed to what I call a pop chip, half as high as it goes in distance, is my thinking anywhere close to correct here?

[ezra76]

Originally Posted by dave.

Sorry,but if you are playing the flop all the time you are most likely choosing the wrong shot,a low percentage shot as well.

Depends on the course. I'll take a couple pics on Tues., then you'll understand where I'm coming from. Unless you can get a pitch 20ft. in the air in 8 feet, it is pretty much the only option besides trying to smash one into 2ft. from the top of the slope. Go long and you'll have an even worse slope from a bare lie on the backside. Of course being a higher handicapper I probably tend to end up in these situations far more often than yourself. Believe me, I've chunked my share as well as almost braining my own dad with a bladed one. He knows to stand clear when he sees my stance that open now.

[Pa Jayhawk]

Originally Posted by Davebud

In my mind the flop goes as high or at least nearly as high as it goes long, is this right? As opposed to what I call a pop chip, half as high as it goes in distance, is my thinking anywhere close to correct here?

You bring up an interesting point. I usually consider a flop and a lob one of the same when talking about it, but in all actuality a lob is actually the higher flying shot similar to what I mentioned in my last post, and a flop is more of the greenside variety. Again though, I pretty much refer to a flop and lob as one of the same, and in all actuality I wouldn't say I use an actual flop that much as the rough around the greens are not usually long enough to warrant this kind of shot.

[Adam Pettman]

Originally Posted by Power Fade

Adam - Whats your handicap?

Why do I ask? Because I have seen your swing in PUTFILE and would suggest you are a 16 at best. I wouldn't advise you to hit the FLOP unless you're 5 or less. Why? Because even for a Tour Pro it's a low % shot for success. It's such a high tariff shot for them, let alone us.

For fun games, open your stance, position the ball just inside front foot, ensure your weight is towards the front, execute like a bunker shot and most importantly... Power through the shot! For a detailed technical tip, ensure the toe of the club points towards the sky during back swing, this will ensure the club face remains open through impact. Good luck.

Shut Up
I Played round in 4 over in an absolute gale on saturday. So you can shove your "16 at best" up your ass. keep your advice coming everyone else.

[IrishGolfer]

I would say I am a better than average flop shot merchant, but I also agree with a few here about when and how to use it. It is a high risk, high reward shot. Hefty and Tiger make it look so easy and sexy, everyone wants to copy it. But I have seen guys (including me) wreck scores in an effort to try this when they could have played another shot just as well.

One piece of advice - don't try and make the flop your stock shot round the greens unless you have a heap of time to spend all day practising it and you can spend time and money have someone grind wedges for you. I mostly play links golf and I am usually faced with several ways of playing a shot. I have learned through experience that flops can be very risky.

Having said that here's my thoughts...

• Confidence - depending on how you feel, it can make such a differnce. I remember seeing hefty playing in the walker Cup at portmarnock, hitting flop shots off bare lies. He could have putted it but he was so confident he flopped and damn near holed everything he looked at. Conversely if you are a bit edgy, have not practiced it or feeling confident, this can be a card wreaker.
• Lie - needs to be a decent amount of grass under the ball, otherwise it's a no go. Also off an uphill lie, never off a downhill lie (unless you name is Eldrick!)
• Wind - into the wind it is much easier to play, downwind I will always look for another alternative
• Slope - Similar to wind, this can make a difference in decision to play this shot.
• Situation - medal round, tight pin, it is very risky. You may have a 1 in 5 chance of getting it close. The other 4 you are in the graveyard. remember most of these shots are recovery shots off a poor previous shot. You'd be better accepting the punishment and playing the safe recovery shot and hoping for a single putt, worst case 2 putts. A bad flop can add 3 or even higher onto your score.
• Method - weaken your left hand, and have soft lose feeling in your arms, open the club face like a bunker shot, play ball just inside left heel, hands very slightly ahead of ball, take a steep full backswing, then come down with an accelerating swing and make sure to follow through. Lower body should be rock solid, planting the legs through the knees. Head should be statuesque. On the follow through get the feeling the ball is in your right hand and you are lobing it up in the air.
• Club - I have a 60 degree Cleve 588 RTG. I also have a 56 and 53 which I will use depending on the lie / conditions.

[Witmaster]

Originally Posted by Adam Pettman

Shut Up
I Played round in 4 over in an absolute gale on saturday. So you can shove your "16 at best" up your ass...

This one get my vote for "Best Post In Thread" award

[longiron]

Originally Posted by Witmaster

This one get my vote for "Best Post In Thread" award

For some reason i cant get to the start of this thread but i agree. to say that the flop shot should be used unless your 5 and under is crazy. Thats like saying if you cant hit a 3 iron get a hybrid. Oh wait lets not get that started again. If you can hit it use it.