Best finishing hole in golf?

[IrishGolfer]

I'm sure this has been posted before, but here's a twist. As well as "in your opinion" you need to justify why it is so good.

IMO, a classic golf hole needs to balance skill, toughness, an element of risk/ reward (which couples judgement) while at the same time being fair. There are various elements to it including length, accuracy required, hazards / rough and the size and shape of the green.

It doesn't have to be 500 yard uphill dogleg par 4 with a swamp on either side of it, to an island green the size of a saucer. At the same time it shouldn't be a 280 yard downhill par 4 with no hazards, rough etc.

My personal choice is the 18th at Shinne**** Hills. A truly great hole, which captures all the elements of a tough but fair testing finish. Some of you will know I had the great fortune to caddy here for 2 summers in 1988 and 1989. This hole meant so much to me when Cory Pavin hit in that 4 wood to secure his one and only US Open.

At 440ish yards it is not a monster, but it normally plays into the wind so demands a great tee shot and a great second. Strategic bunkering gives the player something to think about both on the tee shot and standing over the second shot. A poor tee shot automatically makes this into a par 5, and laying up is not easy (hence the risk / reward). A long tee shot with some draw can carry the saddle on the fairway, leaving no more than a mid iron. Drives pitching into the saddle leaves a long iron from +200 yards.

The green is massive and the pin placement can make the hole nothing short of treacherous. Remember how glassy the greens were when Goosen won?

This hole has everything including a natural amphitheatre one one side of the green, which makes it all the more atmospheric as a finishing hole.

Attached are 2 views from the tee and from behind the green. Imagine needing a 4 to win facing a strong breeze?

[Andy_79]

Looks a good finishing hole does that.

That last hole at Sawgrass would surely have to qualify as being a good 'un, too...

[Dave Ireland]

Good man IG, you keep coming up with these pearlers of threads. IMO in the context of tragedies and triumphs, and risk and reward, it's gotta be the 18th in the Belfry - it has proven to be the most climatic of holes when the Ryder Cup was hosted there. The 473 yard par 4 dog leg left is is a true risk-reward hole. The tee shot is intimidating, especially into a prevailing right-to-left headwind. The longer you try to carry the dog leg, the more the wider part of the moxhull pond comes into play. You bail out right (O'Connor jnr) and you're left with a massive hit home again over the water to a 3 tier green.

Must start a thread about yer favourite 19th hole next

afterthought - my fav 18th of courses played would be the 18th on the Nicklaus designed Mount Juliet

[Andy_79]

I was gonna state the 18th at Mount Juliet myself ! I did, however, hit a pearler 5-wood to a few feet and roll it in for bird' which strengthens my case for votingg it..

[IrishGolfer]

Originally Posted by Dave Ireland

Good man IG, you keep coming up with these pearlers of threads. IMO in the context of tragedies and triumphs, and risk and reward, it's gotta be the 18th in the Belfry - it has proven to be the most climatic of holes when the Ryder Cup was hosted there. The 473 yard par 4 dog leg left is is a true risk-reward hole. The tee shot is intimidating, especially into a prevailing right-to-left headwind. The longer you try to carry the dog leg, the more the wider part of the moxhull pond comes into play. You bail out right (O'Connor jnr) and you're left with a massive hit home again over the water to a 3 tier green.

Must start a thread about yer favourite 19th hole next

afterthought - my fav 18th of courses played would be the 18th on the Nicklaus designed Mount Juliet

DI
I thought about the Belfry as well.
Forgot about Mount Julliet, that's a cracker. I've played it twice, stuffed it both times.

[Dave Ireland]

Originally Posted by Andy_79

I was gonna state the 18th at Mount Juliet myself ! I did, however, hit a pearler 5-wood to a few feet and roll it in for bird' which strengthens my case for votingg it..

Speaking as a person that left a ball to sleep with the fish on the hole, I can only begrudge you the bird Andy ... but thanx for sharing that with me .. bastad ...

[Dave Ireland]

Originally Posted by IrishGolfer

.........Forgot about Mount Julliet, that's a cracker. I've played it twice, stuffed it both times.

Hands accross the border buddy !! ... may my A10 sleep in peace

[Eracer]

English Turn, in New Orleans. Why? Because the PGA tour says so. Since 1989 the 18th been rated the 2nd hardest hole in golf, right behind the 12th at Westchester CC.

http://www.englishturn.com/golf-course-hole18.php3

Edited 04/12/06 at 11:45am EST

I've re-thought my answer...

First, let me apologize to all our European friends for claiming that the PGA of AMERICA has the definitive answer as to what the toughest finishing hole is golf is. I'm sure the R&A may disagree with their choice.

Second, I think the question of the "toughest finishing hole" has to be made in the context of who is playing the hole, as well as the situation at the time it's played. The hole I chose above is part of a course that has a minor PGA tourney (as opposed to a major one) so it's not testing the best players in the world to get the stroke average that makes it statistically the toughest. And the 18th at Augusta proves that the difficulty of a hole is in proportion to what is at stake at the time. This year, Mickelson hit a safe tee shot, a very safe approach shot, a very, very safe third shot, and scored a bogey to win. In another circumstance (like 2004) he needed birdie, and played brilliantly to get it.

So, my choice of the hardest 18th hole, while not intended as a flippant answer, is, upon examination, a shallow one.

As for tough finishing holes I've personally played, I would have to go with 18 at Pebble Beach. Ocean on the left, a tree in the middle of the fairway with a bunker beyond blocking a bail-out tee shot to the right. 543 yards, so it is reachable in two shots for the pros. Very difficult approach shot, again with the ocean on the left and a tree hanging over the right front of the green. Not a difficult hole if you are coming to it with a two shot lead and just need par. But if you need to make eagle to win and birdie to tie, it is a indimidating hole.

[Andy_79]

I will also add to that - albeit it rather reluctanly - that I took a '10' at the tenth hole. That is the par-5 you play after crossing the small road, right ? Didn't know there were two ways of playing it; left or straight(ish) on, so wailed on & found trouble in the trees. Mega silly

The 18th at Druids looks real good. Have you played there, dave ? Am currently looking into playing there, although they're asking serious coinage £195 is the cheapest "deal" I can spot. That is for one night in hotel and a round on each of the Glen & the Heath...

[Andy_79]

Originally Posted by Dave Ireland

Hands accross the border buddy !! ... may my A10 sleep in peace

Hahaha !

Would love to go down there again - 'tis some set up !!

I am gonna make a point of playing some courses this summer, me. Murvagh & Sandy Hills are both high on the agenda. Hopefully get a wee scoot over to Ballyliffin a coupla times, and def. going down to play The Island as we can play there for nowt
Would love to play Ballybunion, but again the cost would be extreme, plus it is a long way to travel !! They say BallyB's back-nine and our front makes the best course in the whole of Ireland, so would love to check it out

[IrishGolfer]

Originally Posted by Andy_79

I will also add to that - albeit it rather reluctanly - that I took a '10' at the tenth hole. That is the par-5 you play after crossing the small road, right ? Didn't know there were two ways of playing it; left or straight(ish) on, so wailed on & found trouble in the trees. Mega silly

The 18th at Druids looks real good. Have you played there, dave ? Am currently looking into playing there, although they're asking serious coinage £195 is the cheapest "deal" I can spot. That is for one night in hotel and a round on each of the Glen & the Heath...

I've played there, another good (but not great) course. 2nd shot on 18th requires a long carry over a lake. I was hitting a 3 wood "do or die" 2nd off a great drive, I think I had 225 left. Hit it flush, but never got any elevation on it and watch in agony as it hit the sleepers and sucked back into a watery grave. It was cool though standing there with "my heart in my mouth" for a few seconds.

Not my idea of a great finishing hole as it doesn't give the average hitter any hope of getting on in two, you have to lay up and leave a 50 yard pitch over water.

Two great (similar parkland) courses to try in the Dublin vicinity are Rathsallagh and Luttrelstown.

[Dave Ireland]

Originally Posted by Andy_79

..............The 18th at Druids looks real good. Have you played there, dave ? Am currently looking into playing there, although they're asking serious coinage £195 is the cheapest "deal" I can spot. That is for one night in hotel and a round on each of the Glen & the Heath...

Andy, have a peek at teetimes.ie you can play the Glen for 90 and the Heath for 70 yoyos - a B&B and convert that into da Queen's coinage might come up a little easier on the pocket

[Dave Ireland]

IG & Andy ... seein as how da nordies are well known for their short arms and long pockets (must be from yer Scottish side) - If yer gonna avail of the freebie down in The Island give me a buzz, I'm not rich but I don't mind spreading my largesse for a game

There's a golf classic, think it's called The NorthWest, which takes in Murvagh, Ballyliffin, Rosses Pt and I think Enniscrone. There could be good value for yer hard earned there

[Andy_79]

Yeah Dave, saw that deal on the Druids site. 90 Euro before 9:20 up until the 2nd May, I think. Just a pity those that intend going are very reluctant to play that early. Why they just can't give up the booze for one solitary night I don't know !!

Can play Murvage, Enniscrone & B/liffin all for half price, but will look into that all the same - looks fair cop..

[Dave Ireland]

Originally Posted by Andy_79

........Can play Murvage, Enniscrone & B/liffin all for half price, but will look into that all the same - looks fair cop..

Together with The Island for free!! .... are you involved in one of these rolled up trouser legs, moose antlers on the head, secret handshake brigades Andy ?