Golf Club Counterfeiting

[Chas]

How much of a problem is this, particularly on eBay?
http://www.pga.com/news/industry/counterfeit042706.cfm

[SiberianDVM]

Dunno, but since China is the counterfeiting capitol of the world, and every frigging club we buy is made in China, I'd say we might have a problem.

Maybe I should go back to playing my 1980 Hogan Apex IIs and my Louisville persimmon woods. My scores couldn't possibly be worse.

[Dave Ireland]

Friend is just back from Beijing ... his brother paid €180 for "Titleist CG4's" I think they were

[Eracer]

Are counterfeit clubs necessarily worse than the originals they copy? Do they use inferior materials? If I bought a set of forged irons for $150 on eBay, and I liked them, and they turned out to be counterfeit, should I become less happy? Because the real ones would have been better?

I really don't know the answer to that. Certainly, if I bought a set of clubs, and they felt really crappy, and I found out they were low-quality fakes, I'd be upset. But do they make high-quality fakes? Are they not just a better deal?

I understand the intellectual property argument. But would I worry too much if I had the chance to choose a counterfeit set at half the price, if the counterfeits played just as well as the real ones?

I don't know, would you?

[DouginGA]

Originally Posted by Eracer

But would I worry too much if I had the chance to choose a counterfeit set at half the price, if the counterfeits played just as well as the real ones?

there are tons of "counterfeit" clubs out there, called clones. and some do play well at half the price. But thinking you are buying mizuno's and not getting true mizunos is deception. The key word there eracer is "choose". if you know they are fakes and still choose to buy them it is one thing, choosing to buy what is represented as something that it is not is another. I will concede that buying a "new in the plastic" set of mp60's for $200 is choosing to buy fakes cause buying at any exceptionally low price you should know that they are not real.
But if your point is "if they play well who cares?" I am with you. Far too much status and "game enhancement" is attached to clubs. If you are topping the ball to short of the ladies tee or slicing everyshot into the woods with a TM R7 changing a cleveland launcher more than likely isnt going to have you hitting the green on short par fours. and if you are shanking every other shot it matters not if the clubs are true mizuno or a counterfeit

[golfman2760]

they should get the death penalty for copyright even if they're nearly as good as the real thing

how would you like it if you worked years to create a product and some Pr**k came in and decided to imitate your product without your permission?

you would want blood

[David B]

Originally Posted by golfman2760

they should get the death penalty for copyright even if they're nearly as good as the real thing

how would you like it if you worked years to create a product and some Pr**k came in and decided to imitate your product without your permission?

you would want blood

The only problem (well, maybe 'not' so much of a problem) would be that China's population would drop by about 90% if counterfeiters got the death penalty... counterfeiting in China is so prevalent that for years the government just turned a blind eye to it.
The only thing that has changed now is that they're attempting to become more 'Westernized', and a lot of American companies are refusing to do business in China unless they start cracking down on the counterfeiting problem.

Personally, I don't think it would be too hard to tell a counterfeit item from a real one... anybody that's received a product straight from China before can attest to their horrible English translation... as long as you don't buy a product labelled 'TyalorMade', 'Titelist', or 'Neki' you should be fine.
That was tongue-in-cheek of course.

[ezra76]

There is a big difference between counterfeiting and clones. Clones are perfectly legitimate as long as the design has not been patented by the manufacturer. Counterfeit clubs are a replica with the name being used and passed off as the same club from the same manufacturer. This is quite common with clothing on Ebay. I bought a Deisel shirt for $10 I know is fake. The real one would go for $50. The thing that sucks is that you could wind up getting screwed for importing the fake clubs if you buy them from overseas. Posession is 9/10 of the law.

[Chas]

Originally Posted by David B

The only problem (well, maybe 'not' so much of a problem) would be that China's population would drop by about 90% if counterfeiters got the death penalty... counterfeiting in China is so prevalent that for years the government just turned a blind eye to it.
The only thing that has changed now is that they're attempting to become more 'Westernized', and a lot of American companies are refusing to do business in China unless they start cracking down on the counterfeiting problem.

Personally, I don't think it would be too hard to tell a counterfeit item from a real one... anybody that's received a product straight from China before can attest to their horrible English translation... as long as you don't buy a product labelled 'TyalorMade', 'Titelist', or 'Neki' you should be fine.
That was tongue-in-cheek of course.

The population of China in one point three billion. Actually, a little over that. Let me know when the process begins. I want to buy mortuary stocks.

[PINGELI]

i KNOW this thread has been dead for a while but this topic fascintaes me. Clones and counterfeits are not necessarily the same. Clones are clubs that look like OEM clubs (I.e. XPC clubs made by Golfsmith are modeled after PING clubs). Counterfeits look just like teh real thing and are ADVERTISED as being real. Counterfeits typically are made from inferior materials to maximize profit (cheap stuff costs less).

Most clones are decent quality though maybe not the same as their OEM counterparts. I seem to remember a story a while back where someone gave Tiger Woods a clone of his Nike clubs and asked him to hit a few balls and tell them the difference (the clones were made to his specs). Tiger told them there was an air bubble in the grip of the clones. the cut the grip open and sure enough, there was a tiny air bubble. Many components are clones (or copied) after OEM brands.

The one item I see cloned at least as much as golf clubs on ebay are sports jerseys. People are selling jerseys advertised as authentics when they clearly aren't. This one joker is even making jerseys himself and selling them as authentic (they look different than the authentic jerseys in the way the numbers and shadowing are cut).

[PINGELI]

Furthermore, if it weren't for my loyalty to PING irons, I wouldn't have any problem clones made from components sold through golfsmith.

[ezra76]

I wouldn't mind trying clones. The guy who owns the little shop where I had my irons delofted sell a bunch of different clones. It's kind of funny because it's so obvious which ones they represent. Counterfeits are garbage in my experience. I'm sure most of you remember the fake R7425 I bought and caved the head on the 2nd shot.

[Bignose]

Originally Posted by PINGELI

Many components are clones (or copied) after OEM brands.

This statement right here I think is just dead wrong. You really shouldn't associate the cloner companies with component companies. Component companies design their own clubs, they don't make copies of some one else's work. Look at the quality component companies out there: Wishon, Alpha, Maltby, Toski, Bang, Geek, Infiniti, Aggressive, Innovex, Louisville, MOI Golf, PureFit, SMT, Tech Power, TourSwing, Ashton, Horsepower. I am sure there are others I either don't know about or forgot, but these all make original designs, bit clones. To lump clone makers and component makers into the same category is quite a disservice to the good component makers out there.

[PINGELI]

Originally Posted by Bignose

This statement right here I think is just dead wrong. You really shouldn't associate the cloner companies with component companies. Component companies design their own clubs, they don't make copies of some one else's work. Look at the quality component companies out there: Wishon, Alpha, Maltby, Toski, Bang, Geek, Infiniti, Aggressive, Innovex, Louisville, MOI Golf, PureFit, SMT, Tech Power, TourSwing, Ashton, Horsepower. I am sure there are others I either don't know about or forgot, but these all make original designs, bit clones. To lump clone makers and component makers into the same category is quite a disservice to the good component makers out there.

Yeah, I may have worded that poorly. what I mean is if you look at the component parts solf in Golfsmith, you can oretty much tell which oem parts they are modeled after (based on design). That said, there aren't really any new iron designs out there. Some of the various Golfsmith brand components (Golfsmith owns Golfsmith, XPC, Lynx, Snake Eyes, etc) look very similar to Cobra, Ping (older XPC's were nearly the exact same as PING models of the mid-late 90's such as the Zing, Zing 2, and ISI). True clones copy only the look of OEM clubs and give little thought to quality. I was calling those compnent parts clones only because their designs are similar to OEM. SMT and Alpha have a large following on the Long Drive circuit. Toski blade irons are gorgeous.

[brendy]

I bought a set of x-14 pro callaways which had no serial number but also found out that custom fit irons usually dont have serials either. Swiftly shifted them on for my RAC LTs and havent looked back.