Foursome types of play

[Loop]

I'm starting a thread on the different types of foursome play I know of, with some betting involved

1. Individual stroke play. Your basic golf round with score. The player with the lowest round wins the money. Or the player with the lowest score on each 9 hole wins. In our group, the 2 players with the worst score has to pay 5$ each.

2. Match Skins play. The player with the lowest score on a given hole wins money per hole. You can make it carry over for more excitement.

3. Team Skins Score play. This is what I play, as our group have made those rules pretty exciting. It's a team of 2 vs 2.
On a hole, the player with the lowest score gets 2 points, the player with the 2nd lowest score gets 1 point, and the 2 other players gets 0 points.
The team with the lowest score combined gets 1 point
So there is a possible total of 4 points. If two players gets the same lowest score, there's no point.
For example, there's team A with players A1 and A2, and team B with players B3 and B4.
A1 has par,
A2 has +2
A1 + A2 combined score = +2
B3 has +1
B4 has +2.
B3 + B4 combined score = +3

So
A1 gets 2 points, as he's got the lowest score.
A2 gets 0 point
B3 gets 1 point, as he's the 2nd lowest score.
B4 gets 0 point.
Team A wins 1 point, as they have the lowest team score combined.

So total point for team A = 2 + 0 + 1 = 3
Team B = 1 + 0 + 0 = 1
So net score is team A = 2 points.

Also, on our rules, a birdie is worth double point, and an eagle worth quadruple. And at any given moment, the losing team can "press" which means every point is worth double. But it's not possible to unpress until the losing team gets back to even or positive. Since we play 1$ for each point, and 5$ for the lowest score on 9 holes, there's plenty of way to make (or lose ) some cash.
This type of format is exciting and fun because every player needs to play well on every shot, or the team will get penalized. Of course it's no fun when you lose, but that's another story.
Once I've eaten up 60$, and my partner got the same amount too. This year, I am making a money list of our group to see who gets on top or on the negative side.

If you have know any other format of foursome team play, with some betting involved, I'd really like to hear about it.

[The master]

No I just play all those ones you mentioned it is sooo fun, and always for money we play skins carryover £1 a hole I have won £13 before which is pretty good. But you know how the saying goes don't foul gamble with The master.

[DaveE]

What we play is similar. If there's only three of us we play straight skins with carryovers.

If we have four we play teams for skins. Nothing complicated, best score for the hole counts for the team. This can be fun when one guy on a team has a birdie and the other guy blows up for an 8 and gets a skin. The other thing we do is switch partners every 3 holes to keep things as even as possible. Because of this carryovers can only go for 3 holes.

Other than that it's just side bets for front, back and total.

I know we're talking about foursomes but my favorite game is wolf when we have five. I know, I know fivesomes are evil but our course is rarely crowded and no one cares.

[Loop]

Dave, please tell memore about that wolf game. A fivesome certainly seems to be insanely fun

[DaveE]

Originally Posted by Loop

Dave, please tell memore about that wolf game. A fivesome certainly seems to be insanely fun

You can play the game with four, but we only play when we have five.

Players take turn teeing off first. Whoever tees off first is the wolf. The wolf can either pick one of the other players as a partner for that hole or he can play the hole by himself.

After the wolf tees off he watches each player tee off and decides if he wants them as his partner before the next player hits. The way we play, you can't wait until everyone has gone and pick the best shot.

Once you have decided on a partner, it's the two of you against the other three. The low score on either team wins the hole. Each player on the winning team gets a skin.

If you have a great tee shot or a close one on a par three you can go wolf, or go it alone. You can wait until everyone has hit to decide this. If you win you get a skin from all four other players. If you're feeling really good about yourself you can go blind wolf, (declaring it before you tee off) and if you win you get double skins.

Since you change partners every hole there can be no carryovers. Because of this, even though the game is fun no one really wins or loses much money.

[Rockford35]

I'm a straight skins guy, but we play that the money won is determined by the score on that particular hole.

A birdie wins a dollar. An Eagle doubles the winnings to 2 dollars.

But, an Eagle also doubles any carry over pot. So, if you have no winners with two consecutive birds, you're doubling 2 dollars(bird+bird) plus the 2 for the eagle for 8 bucks per person. This rarely happens, but money can add up quick.

This also allows any golfer who might be choking way back in the skins to get back in the game faster.

It's sort of a modified version of skins. No one ever ends up paying more than 10 bucks, and more often then not we spend it in the 19th hole anyways, so everyone wins.

R35

[Loop]

Dave, that Wolf game really seems great! I'll try it next time there's a fivesome. And at least, there won't be any sad face at the end of the round

I know I seem like some kind of gambler, even though I'm not. I know some of my playing partners play for much much more than a dollar per hole, something like 50$/hole... Man that's crazy....

[Bravo]

The most dominant betting format in the US is called the Nassau. I have played all around the country and although it may be called by different names - this is the most common bet.

Irishgolfer confirmed it is a common one in Ireland as well.

2 two-man teams. You establish a "bet value" before you begin. IN this regard you say, "we are playing a $2 Nassau...$5 Nassau...whatever value you agree upon.

For purposes of illustration here, let's say you had a $2 Nassau....

You take the best net ball of the two man team vs the best net ball of the other two man team. Whoever is lowest, wins the hole.

When you start your match, it is understood that you have three bets to start (others will likely begin during the round - see below).

1) Front side
2) Back side
3) All 18 holes.

Now, whenever a team gets two holes down - another "concurrent" bet begins.

So say team A wins holes 1 and 2. They are two up and a second bet begins.

If team A wins the third hole - they are up 3 and 1. 3 holes up on the first bet and 1 hole up on the second. You continue play until you make the turn. At that point, the front side is finished and you begin from scratch on the back.

If team A finished the front up 3 and 1, then they won "two bets" and they are "3 up on the 18"at that point.

Say A is hot that day and they finish the back 3 and 1 also.

"Here's what they've won Johnny"...

1) Two bets on the front (3 and 1)
2) Two bets on the back (3 and 1)
3) The 18 hole bet - (they were 6 up).

So at that point - Team a won $10 (5 bets X $2).

Then there's the "trash". You often play the Trash value at half the Nassau bet value. IN this case, the Trash was worth $1 each.

Trash consists of:

1) Birdies
2) Closest to the pin on par 3's
3) Chip ins.
4) Par from any bunker on the hole - fairway or greenside.

So if Team A won five bets ($10)) but Team B had 3 more Trash than A - the net amount to be paid to A is $7....

[Bravo]

Originally Posted by Loop

Dave, that Wolf game really seems great! I'll try it next time there's a fivesome. And at least, there won't be any sad face at the end of the round

I know I seem like some kind of gambler, even though I'm not. I know some of my playing partners play for much much more than a dollar per hole, something like 50$/hole... Man that's crazy....

Wolf is fun. Played it many times.

How about SNAKE? Snake is a putting game.

Snake works like this...

You assign a bet value: Let's say five cents. That's right five cents.

You play the first hole and Player A three putts the hole. He is designated as the Snake at that time and owes everyone in the foursome 5 cents.

You play 2 and 3 and nobody 3 putts. Player A is still the snake..

On the 4th hole, Player B three putts. He is now the Snake and he owes everyone in the group - ten cents.

On the 5th hole, Player C three putts. He is now the snake and he owes everyone in the group 20 cents (total of 60 cents).

Pretty easy to follow and illustrates the power of arithmetic doubling.

Needless to say - playing Snake - can wreck your round. We have played it where we limited the Snake value to $20 - meaning if you were the Snake on the 18th hole - you would pay the other three players $20 EACH.

One time, I got to #18 and was not the snake. The value at that time of the Snake was $10. If someone else became the snake on the final hole, they would owe the others $20 each.

I hit a good drive and was 160 to the middle of the green. Usually hit 6 iron here.

Took out my 8 iron and hit a nice one about 140. Good. Twenty yards short of the green.

Got out my nine iron and bumped it up short of the green. About 5 feet off the green lying three.

Kept my nine in my hand and chipped it to within five feet of the flag and two putted for double.

What a relief - no Snake for this boy.

Collected my $10 and went for a beer.

[MAHALLEDAY]

Originally Posted by DaveE

I know we're talking about foursomes but my favorite game is wolf when we have five. I know, I know fivesomes are evil but our course is rarely crowded and no one cares.

I love wolf we used to play ll teh tiem at the course i worked at the pro teh assiatnats and my self would go out and play. It true you never win much though we always had someone whod win a ton and someone whod lose a ton. It's just that way it worked out. We also played with our handicaps which evend things up a bit unless one of the higher handicappers had a good hole on a hole where they got two strokes on us or somehting. I've been nailed on that a few times, not cool.

[DaveE]

Bravo,

Snake sounds like fun. As I mentioned, the guys in my group love to gamble so I know they would go for this. Just to clarify, the bet is only paid by whoever is the snake on 18, is that right?

You tried your tour tempo cd yet?

[Bravo]

Yeah Dave, that is right. I did not make that clear. When you are the Snake the only payout consideration is who was the Snake on the last hole. If I was Snake three times during the round and somebody else became the Snake and was the Snake at the end - that is the only thing taken into consideration during payout. The times I was Snake (and the amount I owed the other players at the time) is "zeroed out" when somebody else became the Snake after me...

I got the Tour Tempo and had the results you indicated - spotty...I played the audio sequences quite a bit before my last round and I had an 86 which is high for me even in the Winter.

FWIW - I chose the 24/8 sequence (the middle of the three most common) and I think this mimics my natural speed the best.

One of the most interesting things about Tour Tempo is that most golfers take it back too slowly and then have too fast a downswing....

I am going to stick with the Tour Tempo efforts for at least another 4-6 weeks. Even though we have fairly good weather in the winter - we cannot guarantee golf weather on any given weekend. (This weekend is 50/50 for me given weather and sick family considerations).

I have to admit that I learn slowly - but once it is in my head - it is in there pretty well. Therefore, I must commit to something golfwise for a few weeks before I have any idea if it Can work or not.

If it Does work - I will get no meaningful yardage increase, but hopefully will gain Consistency. This is my goal.

My last comment is the fact that the golfer must choose and get ingrained, one of the three tempos and if one does not work - then you must convert to another one. I can see that this will take time.

Its like anything - you gotta hit the range, hit the range and then play within a day or two of hitting the range for the muscle memory to ingrain itself...

[DaveE]

Originally Posted by Bravo

One of the most interesting things about Tour Tempo is that most golfers take it back too slowly and then have too fast a downswing....

That and the fact that virtually all pros have a near perfect 3 to 1 ratio were the two most interesting things to me.

It's tough to argue with the fact that all good golfers play with 3 to 1 tempo ratio so I've commited myself to practice it until it's automatic. That said, I've also decided to not think about it when I'm playing. I have a feeling that the one sure way to screw up my tempo while playing is to TRY to have a good tempo.

Thanks for the clarification on snake, if our weather holds up this weekend I'll suggest it to our group, (with the max payout).

[Bravo]

That's what happened to me - I screwed up my tempo trying to have a good tempo!

On the other hand though, the thing just makes too much sense (and has so much empirical evidence behind it) that I really believe that it can work for me.

So I am going to give it a go for a least a couple of months...

BTW - on the Snake - I suggest you start at a nickel - no more....it will build up very fast. People will be so conscious of three putting that they will sometimes three putt more...

[Loop]

Thanks Bravo for suggesting that Snake betting game. I'm sure my group will love it. I Also need some clarification: it's only for three putts and more right?

YES - three putts and worse....

What if three players makes one putt, and the fourth one makes two putt?

Let's say you come onto the fourth green and player C is the Snake. Then three players make one putt and the fourth makes a two putt like you described.

Player C is still the Snake. He remains the Snake until someone else three putts or worse. He may be the snake for five holes or he may be the Snake for one minute - until somebody else three putts. It is not uncommon for somebody to the the Shake for half hour or for two minutes...
What about if you putt from the fringe, is it counted as a putt or a chip?

Under our rules, the ball must be on the green and not on the fringe
About that Tour Tempo, why would you want a 3-to-1 tempo? I know that the 3-to-1 makes sense, but I've read that each individual has their own tempo that suits them. For example, Chad Campbell has a really quick backswing
The only tool I use for tempo is swinging with a towel, trying not to make it whip snap in the transition.

Campbell probably has a 21/7 tempo then. This means he goes back in 21 video frames and down in 7....