The Argument

[Bravo]

OK as most of you know, I was out of town last weekend playing on the RTJ Trail with a bunch of local guys who the starter put me with on the first tee. They were decent players and we were on a hard course...but the guy in my cart was a total Radiohead. Jibberjabberjibberjabbergabbbygabbyjabber. After about 12 holes I was thinking "Enough already - can't you just shut your gums for 15 seconds??"

So we finish play on 16 and we get into the cart and here he goes...

He shows me the scorecard and says "the next hole is rated as the #4 handicap because it is the fourth hardest par 5 on the course".

See Fighting Joe scorecard here. http://www.rtjgolf.com/courses/the_shoals/scorecard.htm

I said, "that's totally weird that the Par 5's on this course happen to be rated as #1, #2, #3 and #4 and the Par 3's are rated #15, #16, #17 and #18. You mean to tell me that the four holes rated highest happen to be the Par 5's???"

He says, "Yes this is USGA Policy. In the absence of the Handicap Committee rating the holes through some other method, the USGA policy is to rate the Par 5's as #1-4, the Par 4's as #5-14 and the Par 3's as #15-18".

At that point, after listening to Radiohead for three hours...I had had it.

I said, "Man that is total bullshit". He says, "No look right here on the scorecard. Here it is".

I snatch the scorecard off the steering wheel as he is driving and I am in the passenger seat. As you can see, that is indeed how the holes are rated on that course. All the while, he is saying "See, I told you so - this is USGA Policy."

At that point (I have lost it!) I said, "Man you are full of shit. Holes are rated by turning in scorecards and determining which ones should be rated to give a higher player a stroke over a lower handicapper".

Well as you can imagine - nothing was settled at that point. The other guy playing with us who was a member of Turtle Point across the lake agreed with me and said, "On our course the four highest rated holes are all long Par 4's. We have some short Par 5's that are rated pretty low".

But Radiohead would hear nothing of it. Then he says, "You will find many great courses in the world rated like this. It is a very common method for rating courses in the absence of local handicap committees using some other method"...

I start calling him a big bullshitter again (I had lost it guys...) "No way man. I have played from coast to coast and I can't remember ANY courses rated like this".

We finish up and I get in the car and drive back to the hotel. Fuming. DK4#%T#$SR#@!!!

I jump on the internet in the hotel business center and go to USGA.org. Section 17. There is nothing in there that backs up his claim. I find the "Contact Us" section and fire off an email. I expect this will take a couple of weeks to get a reply. Maybe there is something in the Handicap Section I have missed...

Two days later, the USGA writes back and says that the holes should be rated by the Handicap Committee using scores turned in by players.

So then I look up the Golf Digest Top 100 US Courses and print it out. Then I started looking up the scorecards, one by one (they are all online).

After looking at the Top 40 - I found two (2) rated that way and the others had hole ratings all across the board.

SO, I start my printer. I print out the USGA Policy, the email to/fron the USGA and the scorecards from the Top 40 US courses and mail them to him. (He ain't got a toothpick to stand on folks).

To his credit, yesterday he emailed me with a mea culpa. Sheepishly admitted he did not know WTF he was talking about...

So I called him this morning and he was pretty good about it - then the Radiohead went off again and he started talking non-stop.

I pretended that I had an incoming call and had to go.

Sheesh.

[Ravenous Bugblatter Beast]

It's a very common misconception, though.

I know I once thought it, too.

[ualtim]

Kind of makes playing solo seem enjoyable

[DouginGA]

Treat people like that just like gas. Let them pass on by.

[SiberianDVM]

OMG. I can't stand constant yakking on the golf course. That's one of the reasons I like to walk: most people can't keep up a constant stream of chatter when they are huffing and puffing up a hill.

Put them in a cart and they become motormouths. And I'm playing with one of them this Sunday.

[Bravo]

Originally Posted by SiberianDVM

OMG. I can't stand constant yakking on the golf course. That's one of the reasons I like to walk: most people can't keep up a constant stream of chatter when they are huffing and puffing up a hill.

Put them in a cart and they become motormouths. And I'm playing with one of them this Sunday.

Usually I am really tolerant of people....but I am right next to this guy in the cart all day long. I couldn't think straight/gather my thoughts bc he was just constantly talking. arrrgggh. He has a little software development/internet hosting company was a know-it-all-from-hell...

And ironically this course (being on the banks of a river) was very very walkable. After about three holes, I was wishing I just had my bag on my shoulders...

[Farquod]

Didja play orange or purple, B?

[Pa Jayhawk]

I'm not sure I have ever seen a course that had the holes bunched like that. I can imagine how po'ed I would have been when I looked at the card and it was actually that way.

So, Bravo. This happened after 16, how'd you do on 17 and 18? lol

Had it been me 17 and 18 probably would not have been a pretty sight. I probably would have been buying a new driver and possibly facing charges.

[dave.]

I would have called him a **** and run him over when he wasn't looking.

[dave.]

Originally Posted by dave.

I would have called him a **** and run him over when he wasn't looking.

thats cvnt btw

[Loop]

Wow... a 716 yard par 5. Now THAT's exciting

B, he really got into you eh? You should have made a bet.

[bdcrowe]

Aweful lot of negative energy spent on someone you'll likely never see again.

Sometimes it's better just to stiffen the lip and eek out a, "Gee, you don't say..." lol

At least you got the know-it-all to admit ignorance. You got that goin' for ya...

[Bravo]

Farquod: We played the Orange. Any farther back would have been brutal. I lost three balls as it was from the Orange tees. All that grass/heather and water surrounding so many holes...the course designer made his point, "you are going to play here, we are going to beat your ass and you are going to like it!! The beatings will continue until morale improves..."

Loop: On that hole I had to get out field glasses to locate the tips. Crazy far out there.

dave: I must admit it took some self control to keep from beaning him. My nerves were just a bit raw from the constant over-the-top chattering and then he comes at me with this complete bullshit and calls it gold.

FKA: Honestly on 17, I jacked my drive so far right that the only animal that will find that ball will be a gator or a snake.

bd: The best boss I ever worked for was a guy from Michigan. If we were in a management meeting and somebody started a line of alleged logic that was weak and continued to stay with it - he'd say, "I'm calling Bullshit on that". At first I thought he was a bit over the top but he really kept everybody on their toes and people would really think twice before coming up with some sort of contrivance. As I sat there in the cart, I thought of Ron and said, "Sipes would call Bullshit all over this". So I just let it out...I think it really helped my psyche after losing three brand new Pro-V1's....

[Dave Ireland]

Howya Bravo, not to throw petrol on the flames - but the Old and New Course in St. Andrews adopt the same approach. The 2 par 5's and 2 par 3's on the Old are 1&2 /17&18 on the card.

The New Course which I played had all 4 par 3's 15-18 on the index. I birdied the 2 hardest par 3's - the 9th 225yards and 17th 229 yards, it was only when I totted up my score at the end did I realise that I didn't receive a shot at either. IMO both of these holes would've ranked in the top 6 hardest holes on the course. Again I think the nature of play in St. Andrew's (us tourist types on a day trip) prevent the course committee from gauging an accurate indication of hole scoring, as nearly none of the scorecards are returned.

But I completely agree with the review of hole scoring as a method of determining the index of a hole. We have recently redeveloped our index 1, which has made it a far easier hole - based on the fact that it was a blind drive over a dogleg with a lake the far side - unless you could see the ball enter the hazard and then take a penalty drop - you had to declare it as a lost ball and hit 3 off the tee. All the medal scores for the last year have been analysed to reclassify the #14 605 yard par 5 as the new index 1.

[Eracer]

You know I can't stand those types of people you know the kind I'm talking about they talk about nothing all day long well maybe they talk about themselves all day long since of course they know everything so they just talk about what they know which is of course nothing really but you can't tell them that oh no because they've heard it all before and you are their latest victim and all you're trying to do is play golf and those idiots think that playing golf means talking about everything and all you want to do is try to play your game and enjoy the day but they keep talking talking talking and eventually of course it drives you crazy because they keep saying the same thing over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over....

Know what I mean? Know what I mean?