Absolutely Infuriating

[Rockford35]

Originally Posted by Loop

.....it's the player's job to stay out of bunkers.

Quote of the Day...

R35

[Bama Duffer]

Originally Posted by Bravo

When I point it out and ask the question straight up (Is this really fair or good design?) they just shrug their shoulders and mumble, "Well that's just the way it is"...

Bravo--

My parents live in your fair city, I believe, so I'm pretty familiar with the "that's just the way it is" mentality that's pretty prevalent up there.

I look at hazards like you're describing as true risk/reward situations. Like I've seen in some of the tournaments overseas, should you try pushing the shot forward out of a deep pot bunker toward the green and risk not clearing the lip or punch it out in the fairway and lose a shot?

There are holes that aren't fair, where the course doesn't provide you with a true landing area. Or where a huge oak tree left in front of a green makes approach shots all but impossible. There's a par 5 on the RTJ course here that slopes hard to the left into a swamp that really gets into my head. But I have parred it, so I know it can be done. It's just not an easy hole for me.

I appreciate the mental side of golf, although it's hard for me to get out of the mindset that I should hit driver off every tee. So I tend to side with Rock here. A hazard should be a hazard and should force you to think of ways to play over, around or through it. Provided there is a reasonable way to accomplish it, I think it's fair.

[Ravenous Bugblatter Beast]

I disagree with some of the sentiments expressed and here's why:

You can have hazards and penalties, but of varying degrees. Almost every time you hit into a water hazard, it's drop a ball and lose a stroke. You hit into rough, you lose control of the ball's flight some.

You have an OB area and we know how penal the penal is for that.

In my opinion, 99 times out of a 100, a fairway bunker is a fine enough penalty in the trouble it can cause for you to hit a good shot. You'll have to hit an extra club from them even with a good lie, and that's not a guarantee.

I also think this item of design is interesting enough to make one think of whether it is good to have a tree between a bunker and line of recovery: do we ever see them putting up bunkers behind trees?

Almost every case you see of trees interfering with play out of a fairway bunker arises from trees having grown bigger, or trees mistakenly added after the course was built. While the obviousness of not putting bunkers behind already existing trees has never manifested as a problem, the strangeness of planting trees between fairway bunkers and line of recovery has shown itself to be a problem.

Bravo is already aware that he doesn't want to hit into those bunkers. But he is also rightly wondering if it is fair within varying levels of penalty available from course architecture to have trees having grown into an additional penalty.

[Bama Duffer]

Well put, RBB.

I think a site visit is in order to examine all surrounding circumstances and determine the fairness of the situation in question . . . .

[gwlee7]

Originally Posted by Bama Duffer

Well put, RBB.

I think a site visit is in order to examine all surrounding circumstances and determine the fairness of the situation in question . . . .

Absolutely. And if Bama and I hit it in the bunker and can't get it up and down from there, well, it will be deemed UNFAIR!!!

[ezra76]

This happened to me last week on the 17th hole. I had a 79 with 2 par 4's to go. I hit a slice into the bunker and had a tree blocking me 15 feet in front. I tried to hit a low 7i past it and put myself into wedge range. Of course I hit it and now am stuck right against it. I ended up having to hit backwards. Now I'm hitting 4 from 170 out of the rough. Ended up making an 8 and a birdie on the 18th for a 90. Law of averages.

[ManchesterGolfer]

Originally Posted by Loop

I agree with Rock and DaveE on this.

You should be penalized if you get into a bunker or the rough.
Let's say for example you play in St-Andrews and get into one of those pothole fairway bunkers. The best you can do is get out of the bunker to the fairway with a wedge. If you can easily get to the green from the bunker, then why bother making such high bunkers?

And, I can't remember if it's RTJ or Pete Dye who said this, but it's the player's job to stay out of bunkers.

Totaly agree Hazards are meant to be hazards & cost you shots unless you pull off an amazing shot to 'save' par. It gets on my nerves when you hear pro's say they'd rather be in the green side bunker than green side rough, you don't hear many of them say the same thing about water hazards?

[dave.]

agreed,and factor in the first prize of upto a million dollars,and they really are a set of whining ****ers

[Bravo]

Originally Posted by Bama Duffer

Well put, RBB.

I think a site visit is in order to examine all surrounding circumstances and determine the fairness of the situation in question . . . .

Come on up and play...

[Bama Duffer]

Originally Posted by Bravo

Come on up and play...

I'll let you know next time I'm going to be up your way with some time to kill and see if we can arrange it. I won't be comptetive, but I can give you a good chuckle.

[Bravo]

Originally Posted by Bama Duffer

I'll let you know next time I'm going to be up your way with some time to kill and see if we can arrange it. I won't be comptetive, but I can give you a good chuckle.

Great! Let me know...