Good move or bad?

[Farquod]

Guys, after 5 years, I have pretty much decided to give up my club membership. It's at a semi-private, pretty nice club, which has two 18s (one parkland, one links style) and a great practice range/short game area. Here's the link:

http://www.roycebrook.com/

Why? A few reasons. One is that my foursome is breaking up, as one guy has moved down to Fla, and one other doesn't want to foot the membership bill any longer--we had had a "founder's membership" which gave us a break, but which is no longer in effect,

Another is that the short game area--which I love--has been closed most of this year. We've had a fair bit of rain and I don't think that it's particularly well drained (the original manager was a moron). They hold golf schools in that area, and I think they just don't want the members hacking it up.

There're a few other minor annoyances, but the other factor that is weighing in here is that last year they began to charge members $15 per round to walk the course in the mornings. This has grated at me since they began this policy. Obviously, they do it to get you to rent the cart for the extra $10, but in this case it's the principle. It just really pisses me off that I pay the dues then have to pay to walk.

One the other hand, there's a really good group of guys--probably about a dozen--that get together for a Nassau on the weekends, and I was invited to join that crew last year. Obviously, I could do so now, as long as the opening still stands. Also, the club is on my way home from work, so it is pretty easy to jam a little practice in. Plus I get 30 days lead time to reserve tee times, and the west--the links style course--is reserved for members only.

The third member of the foursome and I plan to continue to play every Saturday AM, and we've decided to maybe check out the public courses in the area, which we haven't been playing. There are a few that look pretty good, and I found a county course yesterday out by Rutgers (not the RU course) that is right across from one of my kids' twice-weekly soccer practices. I spoke with two of the folks that work the proshop and found that it is under-attended, and apparently easy to get out and around on a Saturday--to say nothing of jamming in 9 while my daughter slams into a post or two.

In addition, I went to Rutgers (my alma-mater, btw) and found that they had included a huge practice area across the street from the course--including several bunkers and putting greens.

To top it off, I figure, even if I spend an average of $75/round on the weekends, and play one weekend 18 and two weekday 9s--a total of say $125 a week for maybe 30 weeks--I'll be paying about half the price of the membership for the year.

Am I losing anything here?

[MAHALLEDAY]

Doesn't really seem to be a bad move Farq. The whoel pay to walk thing would have me pretty irriated if they did that at a course I was a member at.

Give it a shot for a season and see how it goes. You may also want to look into a membership someplace else.

[DaveE]

Originally Posted by Farquod

To top it off, I figure, even if I spend an average of $75/round on the weekends, and play one weekend 18 and two weekday 9s--a total of say $125 a week for maybe 30 weeks--I'll be paying about half the price of the membership for the year.

Am I losing anything here?

Not that your whole post didn't make sense but this part would settle it for me. Just think of hoing you can do with the money you'll save.

[SiberianDVM]

even if I spend an average of $75/round on the weekends, and play one weekend 18 and two weekday 9s--a total of say $125 a week for maybe 30 weeks--I'll be paying about half the price of the membership for the year.

This is exactly why I don't belong to a club.

[Bravo]

Farq:

I really see both sides of your issue even though I am very happy with my club situation. It is damn expensive for me to be a member and I am deeelighted when that summer club bill comes in at less than $600...

Our club faces many of the same issues. The place was started in 1950 and believe it or not, many of the members from the 50's are still alive. Ten years ago, the average age of a member was 62 but it has been dropping steadily because they are dying off (to be brutally honest) at a high clip right now.

Seeing this change in membership coming, we spent $4m in 1989 and another $3.5M in 2001 to upgrade golf, tennis courts, fitness center and dining facilities to attract new members when the "big death march" hit...

So now we have a crapload of new members. Bunches and bunches of moms and dads with little babies at the pool. And these new members (or the vast majority) do not use electric golf carts. The club has a draconian policy of excluding pull carts in an effort to get golfers to rent electric carts, but these new members walk/carry all the same. It is not uncommon to see a third of the course on Saturdays with walkers. So there was talk a year ago about a 'walking fee' like you have. There was a near riot from the walkers and this was put down...so the pressures are the same.

25 years ago, public golf here sucked - no frankly it wasn't even that good. It was pitiful. Then came the public golf explosion and we are covered up with really good courses now. About a week ago, we were talking after our round and somebody said that a really nice club about 8 miles away is going broke. The bank called a $3M note on them. The bank is either going to start running the club or shut it down and write off the loan. This club was thriving 15 years ago, but now people say, "why bother with the dues??" I last played the course two years ago and it was in great great shape...

This club is broke and I tell you it is a really nice course... I think there will be no new private clubs built around here for the next 20 years.

http://www.riverchasecc.com/index.cfm?ID=132

I guess if I were you, I would be asking myself a lot about the Nassau group. From my end here, this would be the fulcrum of the decision...having that Nassau group where you can just show up without having to make a tee time is such a wonderful thing. This is one of the greatest things about why I like my place. If I want to go play golf - I just show up around a certain time and play. I would rate our course Condition an unqualified "A" but frankly from a design and routing standpoint, there are several public courses in the area that are undeniably better...

[Slingblade61]

Boy, it sounds like a no brainer to me.

Join the men's league at a public course and pay next to nothing compared to what you probably pay now.

My example is that I pay $165 to join the league and then normal greens fees ($53) each week. There are tournaments every weekend and I usually pull in around $400 in pro shop credit.

No resaurant minums, no huge membership bills and if I play othe courses I don't feel like I'm pissing away my club membership.

Good Luck with the move!

[Bama Duffer]

Riverchase is broke? I'd never played there until this year when I was invited to play in a tournament. The course was in good shape and well-maintained. That's disappointing.

You're right about the explosion in public golf in your area. Seems like Bent Brook (http://www.bentbrook.com/) opened, was successful, and others decided to follow.

But sticking to the point of the thread, that's why I've never joined a club. Last time I sat down to figure the number of times my wife I play each year, I think I had to play at least three times a week every week of the year to break even on the costs. I was willing to quit my job and commit to the task, but the wife objected.

[Farquod]

Thanks, guys, you've pretty much summed up my thoughts. It ain't just the money...but then it is, as well. Joining a club, in my opinion, is never something that you can really justify the cost. I don't think you ever make that up based on the actual rounds you'll play...unless you play every morning before work, and that's just not something I can schedule in. So it's a matter of convenience, and the ability to get to know a pro well, and have somewhere you can play virtually whenever you want. In fact, Bravo:

Originally Posted by Bravo

I guess if I were you, I would be asking myself a lot about the Nassau group. From my end here, this would be the fulcrum of the decision.

Good call. That's been the item that does keep tugging at me, but then I haven't played in it yet, and I don't want to make the decision based solely on that score. And as Mahall implies, I can always come back later, or investigate other options. Though I have done some of the latter, and for the area, it is a pretty fair price. However, with memberships being what they are, and with the economy softening a bit, I can't see them selling out all the memberships in the next year or so.

Particularly with that $15 walking fee.

And to Sling's point, I can always join a local league. I think I'll give it a look see.

Originally Posted by Bravo

The club has a draconian policy of excluding pull carts in an effort to get golfers to rent electric carts, but these new members walk/carry all the same. It is not uncommon to see a third of the course on Saturdays with walkers.

Same by me as well. The world just keeps getting smaller, doesn't it?

I am not overly familiar with the state of the public golf scene by me. I did play in a series of pro-ams last year with the club pro (who, of course, also left this year. One more reason) so I have now played a few more of the clubs in the area that I had not previously played.

I'm beginning to look at this as an adventure.

Though I think that reserving starting times will be interesting. Anyone got any tips?

[Slingblade61]

Though I think that reserving starting times will be interesting. Anyone got any tips?

In my world, Men's league always goes first. Summer tee times are generally between 6 and 8 am. Done by lunchtime and I either go again or go home.

[Rockford35]

Around here, we have dual memberships that allow you to play 1 of 3 courses run by the same management under the same regime. But, at the cost, you'd have to average 4 rounds a week for the 4 summer months to justify the costs. You get 10% above cost on pro shop supplies (it's still cheaper to buy on the net tho) and free entry into the city championships if you sign up, but it's really not worth it unless you're independently wealthy or retired so you can play at will.

If I had the time, I would sign up for the Men's league and join that way. You get discounts on rounds and carts (if you want one) and entry into the Men's Championship at any of the 3 clubs, as long as you've played at least 50% of your yearly rounds there.

I can't really see an incentive to join a club at the rates that they charge. I really think it's a status symbol more than anything. Because really, if you can get your weekly Nassau game in with your buds, what's the difference? Just no tag on your cart bag.

R35

[15andlife]

Well I think thats a benefit of me being a junior golfer around here I can get a membership at one of the nicest courses in the area for $250 for the summer with unlimited play. Which sounds like a sweet deal to me. SO i'm sorry to hear about your club going downhill lately and I would say it would be a good move to drop your membership there.

[VtDivot]

I guess I'm lucky - the dogpath I call home is only $750 per year. There's some private courses around that are 4k but that is just too much money in my opinion.

I'm hoping next year to convince some of my buds to switch to one of the nicer muni style places ($1100) but it's also 800 yards longer at 7000+

[Pa Jayhawk]

Originally Posted by Farquod

There're a few other minor annoyances, but the other factor that is weighing in here is that last year they began to charge members $15 per round to walk the course in the mornings.

If I were a member, this would be enough in itself to not only make me give up my membership, but quite possibly never play the course again. And since moving up here I don't even walk anymore.

From all that you mention, it sounds to me like they have lost respect for their members. Which will probably change fairly soon when they realize they have to go from semi-Private to more public just to stay afloat.

[Rockford35]

Originally Posted by VtDivot

I'm hoping next year to convince some of my buds to switch to one of the nicer muni style places ($1100) but it's also 800 yards longer at 7000+

Ya, there's no way your 60's would stand up to that increase in distance. You'd be hooped!



R35

[VtDivot]

Originally Posted by Rockford35

Ya, there's no way your 60's would stand up to that increase in distance. You'd be hooped!



R35

I want the increased yardage... driver chip or driver wedge gets a little boring. Our course plays right about 6000 yards and I hate it. All of it's length is in the 200 yard plus par 3's