Snead, hogan, byron nelson

[dave.]

I am not convinced by that analysis Benk.Every player comes inside,this move is impossible to avoid because of the right shoulder and right leg.Hogan has some very simple pictures in his book showing this,and he then shows his right elbow tucking tight into his right hip,all golfers require this move regardless of plane.

No offence but this one of the reasons I stopped reading those forums,I just kept to Hogan's book.Imho if you are trying to stop doing this you are in effect doing what King Canute tried to do,stop the inevitable.Every player will drop inside,then come through 'behind and under' as Harvey Penick calls it,and at the same time you hit hard with the body rotation.Hardy says you can do this as hard as you like from the top,that doesn't work for me at all but I am sure it has works for many of his students.

It is physically impossible t o have a 100% 1 plane,ie you go back and down on the same plane.I think you may have misunderstood some part of whatever book you read if you are genuinely trying to do this.Have a look at Hogan's diagrams.

[charnockpro]

I agree with dave that it is very hard to go back oand down on the same plane, maybe Iron Byron can do it, but humans cant, the natural movement of the golf swing shallows the plane of a better player anyway, handicap golfers worst fault is the shaft plane steepening and causing all kinds of problems, the V1 version of Immelmans swing is nearly 2 years old as the one on youtube is from this year and obviously he is working with someone different or has just made a concious decision to change his swing.

[benk]

That it is very hard to come down on the same plane. I guess I stated that wrong. In order to get back down into a good downswing path with a 2 plane swing, you must "drop" the hands down to get to a good path, thats a better word for it. In the 2 plane backswing, most of the time, you come outside [ sometimes outside ] and in front of your body, then drop to the inside. I agree it is very hard to be the exact same, but in a 2 plane golf swing, where the hands and arms are above the shoulder line enough, you must have some form of this move.

How can you say that every player comes to the inside at soem point, what about players that come over the top in a 2 plane swing. I agree that if you have a good 1 plane backswing, it is impossible to come over the top, but at this point, I'm talking about a 2 plane swing. I like hogans book also, but he is talking about a 1 plane golf swing, not a 2.

In the one plane swing, because you went up the same way your going to come down, you don't need to manipulations to get the club back on plane. I'm not trying to get exactly on plane 100% on plane, My downswing plane should actually be above my backswing plane.

There is no 1 planer that drops inside, find me a 1 planer that makes a drop inside that is a good ballstriker. They will come in too shallow.

Thanks charnock for the info. I was wondering how they were so much differant. It looks to me like he is definally moving more towards a 1 plane swing.

[dave.]

There is no 1 planer that drops inside, find me a 1 planer that makes a drop inside that is a good ballstriker. They will come in too shallow

Ben Hogan

Benk,I think you have a very definitive view of one plane,one that I don't agree with it seems.You said you agree re my point,saying its impossible to come down on the same plane then say no one planer drops inside? Its the same thing! the right shoulder and natural hip turn will pull you inside.Harvey Penick called it under and inside,rather than over and outside.No way in a trillion years will you come inside when the right elbow tucks in coming down,it this move that pulls you inside the origianl backswing plane,as I said in an earlier post Hogan has some good drawings of this in his book.

[benk]

Now I see what has happened here. I have thought your ideas differantly, and you thought mine differantly.

I assumed you know what I meant when I said drop. When I say drop, I mean that you have a conscious thought to let the hands drop onto plane. Hogan does not do a drop, he gets to the inside by his body, as you say. Obviously, you though that a drop was just the move to the inside. See, if you make a conscious drop in the 1 plane swing, you will probably come UNDER the plane that you came up with, which is disasterous.

I guess you can see now how the drop was misunderstood. I think our ideas are actually very similar, but the drop kind of distorted things. Have a nice christmas.

[dave.]

It seems so

Yes,I meant the normal inside and under line you naturally take as you hit hard with your body turn,your right elbow stays tucked in and the right shoulder brings the club inside.