Here's the Testimonial on the TVC Driver

[indacup]

We sent a sample to our own Slingblade for his feedback...in the meantime, heres what we got from an unbiased chain that will soon be carrying the TourSwing line up:

Tim,
Here are a few pics of mike and I at the cane patch driving range with different potential customers. I also sent a short video of me hitting the explode driver. That is the drive that I hit 347 with roll. The ball carried a bunker at 295, it was a par 5 , 550 yards. I had 203 yards to the green.
The results that I got from the driving range, martins and golf dimensions were as follows:

Martins:

27 people hit various drivers against the TVC driver and the TVC out hit all drivers with next best driver being the Ping Rapture/V2 combo.
The ball speed coming off the head was averaging 12% more with the TVC.

Ball carry was averaging 10-15 yards further with the TVC.
Straightness was the best with off center hits with the TVC only 11-17 yards off center. Most other drivers were 19-26 yards off center with the same off center hit.
Design- 23 out of 27 liked the design, weight and feel

Golf dimensions;

Results were similar

14 people tested the TVC against their own drivers and the TVC out preformed all in distance, ball speed, carry, and off center hit.
Design- 8 people liked the design, weight and feel.

Driving range-

30 people hit them against their own drivers and here are the findings;


25 people hit the TVC further and straighter with our club on an average of 8 yards further.
All hit the the ball better with off center hits on the face. Anywhere from 8-15 yards closer to center with off center face hits.
21 people really liked the weight and feel of the TVC
23 people liked the design
I asked of the 30 that hit our club how many would think this would be a great addition to their game- 22 people felt it would improve their golf game.


Tim,
Thanks for the opportunity to get these in real golfers hands it was sure an eye opening experience for me and Mike. We had a blast having golfers hit our clubs and looking at the looks on their faces as the TVC would out hit their $300-$500 drivers.
I will call you to make sure you got the pics and I will be shipping the drivers back to you very shortly. Thanks again

Dan

[SilverUberXeno]

I'm curious... regardless of the material, the COR is regulated by the USGA at .830 COR. How does Tourswing account for such a drastic increase in ballspeed and distance with the TVC versus people's current drivers? Are they also fitting them with an optimal club? Or were they just putting a comparable TVC, relative to the subject's current driver, rather than actually fitting them to their ideal?

[MIKE1218]

I agree with SUX - How can there be such an improvement over OEM tech? Is this thing even USGA legal?

[warbirdlover]

I suspect it's due to the special titanium used in the face. Those USGA values can be cheated by creative metallurgists... So much bounce when a ball is dropped on it but when it's swung at normal speed?

[mddubya]

I would like to know if it is USGA legal. For home course play a illegal driver can be fun. But I'd hate to win tourny, and then be disqualified when my driver was deemed illegal.



I have a TS Renegade that on certain days, when the stars and planets align just right, I can crush, but I won't play it because I don't want to get used to it and then not be able to use it in a tournament. Even though looking at it and then that Hippo monstrosity, I can't believe the Hippo is legal, and the Renegade isn't?

[indacup]

Originally Posted by SilverUberXeno

I'm curious... regardless of the material, the COR is regulated by the USGA at .830 COR. How does Tourswing account for such a drastic increase in ballspeed and distance with the TVC versus people's current drivers?

Great questions!

Since many have echoed the same concerns...here's the reasons...

1) Like MOI claims, MANY, MANY manufacturers exaggerate their claims...matter of fact Carlton at the USGA told Tim that the response off the face "technically" exceeded the pendulum test, but stayed within their tolerances.

For example, the maximum volume a driver can be is 460cc..however they have a 10cc tolerance, so the head CAN TECHNICALLY be 470, but cannot ADVERTISE 470cc.

2) The pendulum testing (COR) is testing the maximum deflection on the face...which is a very small area because the material does not allow them to maintain a thin wall thickness over a larger area of the face as the TVC allows....basically, a greater, larger sweet spot area.

So, for those extremely low few who can consistently hit the sweet spot on the demos, saw huge increases...but more important,. for us mortals who "occasionally" hit the sweet spot is where the TVC dominates by far.

Are they also fitting them with an optimal club? Or were they just putting a comparable TVC, relative to the subject's current driver, rather than actually fitting them to their ideal?

Actually, it was just the opposite, The people who did the testing brought their own fitted drivers...and hit "off the rack" TVC drivers with Avenger shafts at 45"

[SilverUberXeno]

So the COR is technically above .83, but is "close enough" to be within the tolerance? I didn't really understand what you said after that. About the extremely low few seeing a huge increase?

[indacup]

Originally Posted by SilverUberXeno

So the COR is technically above .83, but is "close enough" to be within the tolerance? I didn't really understand what you said after that. About the extremely low few seeing a huge increase?

No, the USGA has quit doing the COR test January of 2004.

It was replaced by the Pendulum test.

From USGA Rule book:

The pendulum device will require only a low speed strike to the clubface by a small weight on a pendulum. The device will measure the contact time of the collision between the two objects. The longer the contact time, the greater the spring-like effect of the clubface. The time measured is called the 'Characteristic Time' of the clubhead. The new test will not change the status of clubs previously ruled conforming or non-conforming.

The Characteristic Time limit set for conformance is 239 microseconds, plus a test tolerance of 18 microseconds.

The TVC material averaged close to 17 microseconds WITHIN the tolerance.

Make sense?

[MIKE1218]

So the TVC is at 240? I still don't see why everything else is so inferior if they are all supposed to be at the limit.

[indacup]

Originally Posted by MIKE1218

So the TVC is at 240? I still don't see why everything else is so inferior if they are all supposed to be at the limit.

Like I said, people who claim hi cor or hi moi are basing their claims against what? It's all hype.....even the Nike 5900 is no freakin NEAR 5900 MOI....not even close...but how would the masses know otherwise?

If ya cannot make superior product, hire superior marketers.

Obviously many variables can be contributory....but one thing is the face material..I posted in here awhile back about the rankings of different ti blends used in todays drivers...here it is again, ranked from cheapest to most expensive.

6-4 Titanium Unless stated specifically titanium heads advertised as Beta-Titanium use this alloy(6-4 Titanium) for the shell of the head and Beta-Titanium(15-3-3-3 Beta-Ti) in the face.

Density (lb/in³)	Tensile Strength (psi)	Hardness	Elongation(%)
0.16	135,000	36 HRC	15

15-3-3-3 Forged Beta-Ti Titanium is used in wood heads manufactured with the formula 15V-3Sn-3Cr-3Al: these are 76% Titanium, 15% Vanadium, 3% Tin, 3% Chromium and 3% Aluminum .

Density (lb/in³)	Tensile Strength (psi)	Hardness	Elongation(%)
0.172	145,000	32 HRC	8

15-5-3 Titanium Not more than 75% titanium, 15% Molybdenum, 5% Zirconium and 3% Aluminum. The most common used in high quality woods. Harder than 17-4 stainless steel.

Density (lb/in³)	Tensile Strength (psi)	Hardness	Elongation(%)
0.181	181,000	35 HRC	5

10-2-3 Titanium Titanium is used in wood heads manufactured with the formula 10V-2Fe-3Al: these are 85% Titanium, 10% Vanadium and 3% Aluminum . Titanium is often used very rarely in golf. Airplane black boxes

Density (lb/in³)	Tensile Strength (psi)	Hardness	Elongation(%)
0.168	180,000	41 HRC	6

SP700 Titanium Titanium is used in wood heads manufactured with the formula 4.5Al-2.5Fe-2Mo-3V: these are 88% Titanium, 4.5% Aluminum, 2.5% Iron, 2% Molybdenum and 3% Vanadium. Japanese grade tested heat treated

Density (lb/in³)	Tensile Strength (psi)	Hardness	Elongation(%)
0.163	148,000	45 HRC	19

The SP 700 is used extremely rarely, due to the expense...the TVC is MORE expensive and superior.

Incidentally, ever notice how so many companies advertise they use Beta-Ti or 6-4 Ti? Sounds really cool, but is in reality "pig metal" compared to some of the other blends being used and available out there.

Taylor-Made is an example of producing (what they say) the longest driver...but they say that about all nine models they made last year....funny.

[indacup]

Another key thing to remember is the shafts and head are designed to work with eachother...no OEM makes their own heads and shafts.

[SilverUberXeno]

Indacup, do you have a comprehensive list of what materials are used to make all the different OEM heads?

You are suggesting, if I understand correctly, that the TVC driver actually reaches the limit, and other drivers only CLAIM to be at the limit, correct? So the TVC would certainly be USGA legal, but actually does what other companies CLAIM that their drivers to- reach the maximum limit of performance. Is that correct?

Do companes publish what titaniums they use?

[indacup]

Originally Posted by SilverUberXeno

Indacup, do you have a comprehensive list of what materials are used to make all the different OEM heads?

No way, that would be I'm sure confidential info...but as I said, many boast, even STAMP things like "beta-ti" which is like saying "We use cheap material".

You are suggesting, if I understand correctly, that the TVC driver actually reaches the limit, and other drivers only CLAIM to be at the limit, correct?

I am saying that we were told the TVC went as far as allowable...and because of the material and design, it does not lose energy as impact is made further from the sweet spot as any of those tested last week.

So the TVC would certainly be USGA legal, but actually does what other companies CLAIM that their drivers to- reach the maximum limit of performance. Is that correct?

Companies can claim whatever they want...to a certain point I guess

Do companes publish what titaniums they use?

Some do...some don't...I've noticed OEMS tend not to divulge that info, whereas it seems it's very common in the component industry to announce the materials.

Also, material is just part of the equation on how a head will perform (obviously)...you can have the most expensive material...but may be incorportating an open mold design or even a poor design and it would defeat the purpose of the quality material.

On the same token, I know of some companies that use cheap material...but their designs were good enough that it made up for the material.

Hell, I know of one instance where a foundry had a room full of broken heads announcing they were being staged for regrind to be used in another companies product.

[indacup]

Heres a link to the Titleist 907

http://www.titleist.com/golfclubs/dr...7D2.asp?bhcp=1

Here, they say the head is 6-4 head and SP-700 face material...

To me, this would be great....the crown material has high elongation meaning it gives well and they used a very expensive and about the hardest blend being used.....plus, I also know it is plasma welded, making it very consitent manufacturing process.

Good head.

I see Cleveland advertises using an SP-700 face also....
http://www.bestvaluegolf.com/clevela...00-driver.html

Good quality material again.

[SilverUberXeno]

Could you PM me some info on Wishon and Geek heads?