Home Forum Links Directory Get your product reviewed Golf Shoes Pro Shop Arcade
Go Back   Shot Talk - Golf Forum > Golf Discussion > Tourney Talk
Register Gallery FAQ Members List Calendar Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read

View Poll Results: Would you have done the same and turned yourself in?
Yes, I actually have some integrity! 13 72.22%
No! Are you kidding? That's my Tour Card I'm giving up! 5 27.78%
Voters: 18. You may not vote on this poll

Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools Display Modes
 
iTrader: (0)
#1 (permalink)  
Old 11-19-2008, 11:23 AM
slickpitt's Avatar
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Posts: 777
slickpitt is on a distinguished road
Tough thing to do.. JP Hayes DQ'd

ESPN - Golfer J.P. Hayes turns himself in for using wrong ball, loses shot at '09 tour

Quote:
J.P. Hayes says anyone else on the PGA Tour in his situation "would have done the same thing."
During the second stage of the PGA Tour qualifying tournament last week in Texas, Hayes discovered that on two shots on one hole, he had unwittingly used a prototype golf ball not approved for competition by the United States Golf Association.

No one would have known. And a full-time spot on the PGA Tour in 2009 was on the line. But Hayes, honoring the tradition of a game where the players police themselves, turned himself in and was disqualified.
"It's extremely disappointing," Hayes said, according to the Milwaukee Journal Sentinel. "I keep thinking I'm going to wake up and this is going to be a bad nightmare." It happened a week ago, at Deerwood Country Club in McKinney, Texas. On his 12th hole of the first round, Hayes' caddie reached into his golf bag and tossed a ball to Hayes, who played two shots -- a tee and a chip onto the green -- and marked his ball. At that point he realized the ball he was playing was not the same model with which he started the round -- by rule, a two-stroke penalty. "I realized there was a penalty and I called an official over," Hayes said, according to the newspaper. "He said the penalty was two shots and that I had to finish the hole with that ball and then change back to the original ball." Hayes shot a 74 Wednesday and a 71 on Thursday, putting him in good shape to finish in the top 20 and advance to the final qualifying stage in December.
But on Thursday night in his hotel room, Hayes realized that the errant golf ball might not have been on the approved list. "It was a Titleist prototype, and somehow it had gotten into my bag," he said, according to the Journal Sentinel. "It had been four weeks since Titleist gave me some prototype balls and I tested them. I have no idea how or why it was still in there." Hayes had a choice: He could have said nothing and kept playing, with no one aware of his mistake. Or he could turn himself in and let his mistake cost him a 2009 PGA Tour card. He chose the latter. "I called an official in Houston that night and said, 'I think I may have a problem,' " Hayes said. "He said they'd call Titleist the next day. I pretty much knew at that point I was going to be disqualified." As for his decision to turn himself in? "I would say everybody out here [on the PGA Tour] would have done the same thing," Hayes said, according to the report. Hayes, 43, is refusing to blame his caddie for the error, saying he should have spotted the errant ball because it did not have a model name on the seam. "[The caddie] kind of wanted to take some of the blame, but he knows I'm anal about my equipment," Hayes said, according to the report. "I go through my bag every night. I want to know what's in there. It's almost therapeutic for me." According to the report, Hayes said that if the hole had been a par-4 or a par-5, he would have known he had the wrong ball right away, because he uses the label to help him align his driver on tee shots. "But it was a par-3 and I don't use the label to line up on par-3s," he said, according to the Journal Sentinel. "It was my mistake. I had no choice but to take my medicine." Hayes has two career PGA Tour victories, his last coming in 2002. He was playing in the second stage of the tour's Q-school tourney because he finished outside of the top 150 on the money list in 2008. He earned $312,152 this season, making just seven cuts in 26 events. He was 176th on the money list -- the worst showing of his career. But Hayes has more than $7 million in career earnings. He expects he still will be able to play 10 to 12 lesser tournaments in 2009, thanks to his status as a veteran player and past tourney champion, as well as sponsors' exemptions, according to the report. "I'm kind of at a point in my career where if I have a light year, it might be a good thing," he said, according to the Journal Sentinel. "I'm looking forward to playing less and spending more time with my family. "It's not the end of the world. It will be fine. It is fine."
__________________
Golf teaches that both success and failure are temporary.
Golf also teaches that success is much more temporary.

Handicap: 11

Bag:
Driver - Cally FT-5 Tour w/Aldila VS Proto 80
Driver - Tour Burner 9.5
3 Wood - Cally FT w/Fuji E160
3 Hybrid - Cally FT 21* w/Fuji
4 Hybrid - Taylor Made Burner
Irons(5-P) - Titleist AP2
Wedge - Callaway X-Tour 50
Wedge - Vokey SM 54.10
Wedge - Vokey SM 58.08

Wedge - Nakashima 60*
Putter - Ping i-Series Piper H
Ping Bag
Reply With Quote
 
iTrader: (1)
#2 (permalink)  
Old 11-19-2008, 11:28 AM
eclark53520's Avatar
Hockey Puck Designer
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 2,655
eclark53520 is on a distinguished road
its nice to know there are still some good honest people out there.
__________________
"Orders should be given verbally and vaguely. Otherwise you lose all powers of deniability" --Dilbert
Reply With Quote
 
iTrader: (0)
#3 (permalink)  
Old 11-19-2008, 11:29 AM
ClairefromClare's Avatar
Threadjacking Queen
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
Posts: 1,277
ClairefromClare is on a distinguished road
Tough call, but he did the right thing. And now he can live with himself.
__________________
Livin' on the Edge Without the Rush
WITB
Driver--PING Rhapsody 16*
Fairway Wood--Ping Rhapsody 5, 22*
Hybrids--Cobra Bafflers, 3 (23*), 4 (26*), 5 (29*), 6 (32*)
Irons--Callaway X-20, 7-AW
SW--Wilson Prostaff
LW--Nancy Lopez
Putter--Bettinardi Hawk
all women's flex, left-handed
Balls--Pinnacle Gold Distance
Bags--Datrek IDS (cart); Sun Mountain 3.5 (carry)
Reply With Quote
 
iTrader: (4)
#4 (permalink)  
Old 11-19-2008, 01:16 PM
ezra76's Avatar
I need a new Futon
 
Join Date: Feb 2006
Posts: 10,683
ezra76 is on a distinguished road
That's pretty darn honest. I can't say I wouldn't have just tossed the ball into a pond and gone on with the 2 stroke penalty. Then again, if I were a tour player, I'd probably empty out my balls every round, sign them and give them away. Then start each round with a brand new box of ProV's in the bag.
__________________
Hello Acushnet

Cobra SpeedPro D 10.5 VS Proto 65-S
TourEdge CB1 13* CompNT 85-S
Titlies 906F4 18.5* VS Proto 80-S
Titleist 704CB 3i-PW
Vokey SM 54*
Vokey SM 60*
Rife 2bar Hybrid
Ogio Vaporlite Stand bag

Hndcp - 10.7 Singles are Coming
Location - Providence, RI

Last edited by ezra76; 11-19-2008 at 01:19 PM..
Reply With Quote
 
iTrader: (7)
#5 (permalink)  
Old 11-19-2008, 01:30 PM
Eracer's Avatar
No more triple bogies!!
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Posts: 11,905
Images: 3
Eracer is on a distinguished road
The best part is his statement that every other tour player would have done the same thing. I'm not sure that's necessarily true, but it says so much about the nature of the game.

I'm betting JP gets some pretty good sponsor's exemptions next year.
__________________
"I also got a lot of looks when I said the baby smelled like the inside of Home Depot."
- R35

HiBore XL 10.5º w/ProLaunch Red
Mizuno F50 4-wood w/OEM graphite
Baffler 3/R w/Nippon NS950Pro
Baffler 4/R w/Nippon NS950Pro
Baffler 5/R w/Nippon NS950Pro
MacGregor MT 5-PW w/Nippon NS950GH
Vokey SM 54-10 (bent to 52-08)
Vokey SM 58-12 (bent to 56-10)

Guerin-Rife 2-Bar Hybrid Blade

RIP Bravo...
Reply With Quote
 
iTrader: (2)
#6 (permalink)  
Old 11-19-2008, 01:43 PM
MCDavis's Avatar
The Plaid Duffer
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Posts: 4,827
MCDavis is on a distinguished road
Rules are rules. I admire him for his decision, and yes I'd have done the same thing.

On the selfish side, he'll get some good PR out of this and like Eracer said, he'll get to play.
__________________
In the Ogio Vaporlite:
G5 10.5º G10 17º G10 21º i3 3-PW rac Black TP 52º & 56º YES! Callie Putter

I quit this game once...now I'm back...how dumb am I?
Quote:
Originally Posted by SiberianDVM
Once again, Shottalk spirals into The Twilight Zone...........................
RIP John "Bravo" Bretz 1955-2008
Reply With Quote
 
iTrader: (0)
#7 (permalink)  
Old 11-19-2008, 03:26 PM
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Posts: 258
WMitch6 is on a distinguished road
A tough poll to question to answer. I would like to think that I would have done the same, but until you are in exactly the same position, who can know for sure.
Reply With Quote
 
iTrader: (0)
#8 (permalink)  
Old 11-19-2008, 03:41 PM
Skiddlydiddly's Avatar
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Posts: 234
Images: 1
Skiddlydiddly is on a distinguished road
Call me a cynic, but $7 million in career earnings probably makes it easier to do the right thing.

I guess you could also call me a lying cheat while you're at it.
__________________
Putter ------ PING i-series B60
Wedges ----- Snake Eyes 655tm (51/7, 56/14, 60/6)
Hybrid ------- Toski TS60 (26*)
Driver ------- Snake Eyes Python XL (11.5*)
Other clubs - Cheap-O Alien beginner set

Location: Ottawa, ON, Canada
Hcp: 38 , lol.
Reply With Quote
 
iTrader: (2)
#9 (permalink)  
Old 11-19-2008, 06:02 PM
JEFF4i's Avatar
Bengals Learn Their Place
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Posts: 10,698
JEFF4i is on a distinguished road
Problem with cynics is that they love to point out the gray area, or negative. Sure, there is in every situation, but c'mon, this guy did a good thing.

I'd like to think I'd have done the same thing, but who knows?
__________________
Callaway FT-i Tour Neutral 8.5* Accuflex Creation 65-X
Nike Sumo 2 9.5* UST Proforce V2 76g-S
r7 460 8.5* Grafalloy NT Prototype 65 X-Stiff
r7 Tour Spoon Graffaloy Blue Stiff
Titleist 975F 16.5* V2 85 X-Stiff
Wilson Staff Hb5 17* Hybrid Rifle Flighted X-Stiff
Mizuno MP-32 2 Iron True Temper S300
Mizuno MP-33 Irons True Temper S300 (3-PW)
RAC TP True Temper 52*
RAC TP 56* True Temper
Scotty Cameron Studio Design #1


Location: New Mexico
Reply With Quote
 
iTrader: (3)
#10 (permalink)  
Old 11-19-2008, 06:28 PM
mont86's Avatar
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2005
Posts: 3,234
mont86 is on a distinguished road
I would have called it on myself..Not worth getting caught
over then having to face everyone.
__________________
When asked how to put back spin on a i7,
Trevino said how far do you hit it?
The guy said 120yds and Trevino said why do you want to back it up?
Reply With Quote
 
iTrader: (0)
#11 (permalink)  
Old 11-19-2008, 06:30 PM
Wi-Golfer's Avatar
Triple Bogey Jedi
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Posts: 3,683
Wi-Golfer is on a distinguished road
2 ways to look at it: One is the die hard "rules are rules" way & that being said, yes he did the right thing. However I think the rules, in fact a lot of the rules are archaic & need to be either eliminated or changed in some way. Michelle Wies disqualification earlier this year for that ridiculous signing of the score card deal is one such rule.

What harm & or advantage did Hayes gain by using the wrong ball for 2 shots? He took the penalty at the time which is harsh in & of itself. I just fail to comprehend exactly what the goal of some of these rules actually are.

How many of us when forced with a large/tough forced carry over water or other obstacle, will pull out a cheap ball & put the $4 ProV1 in the pocket? I know the answer already as everyone is going to claim "not me, I would never do that", even though I have seen it done by plenty of people. Including folks who post here as well as myself, do we then penalize ourselves for not playing the same brand of ball the entire rd? Not a chance of that happening.
__________________
Driver: TM Burner 11.5º w Aldila Proto "By You".
3w: TM Burner
4w: TM R7
3H: TM Burner Rescue
4H: TEE CB2
5H: TM Burner Rescue
6-GW: Cleveland Launchers
53º: Cleveland 588
Putter: TM Tourismo

Driver #2: TM R7 425 TP, 9.5º Prolaunch Red
Driver #3: Callaway FT-i 11º n with 586 speeder
Maruman 3-SW

Last edited by Wi-Golfer; 11-19-2008 at 06:34 PM..
Reply With Quote
 
iTrader: (0)
#12 (permalink)  
Old 11-19-2008, 06:57 PM
ClairefromClare's Avatar
Threadjacking Queen
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
Posts: 1,277
ClairefromClare is on a distinguished road
Quote:
Originally Posted by MCDavis View Post
Rules are rules. I admire him for his decision, and yes I'd have done the same thing.

On the selfish side, he'll get some good PR out of this and like Eracer said, he'll get to play.
Quote:
Originally Posted by MCDavis View Post
Rules are rules. I admire him for his decision, and yes I'd have done the same thing.

On the selfish side, he'll get some good PR out of this and like Eracer said, he'll get to play.
MC, you're repeating yourself again! Gosh, give the guy a promotion and he never shuts up.
__________________
Livin' on the Edge Without the Rush
WITB
Driver--PING Rhapsody 16*
Fairway Wood--Ping Rhapsody 5, 22*
Hybrids--Cobra Bafflers, 3 (23*), 4 (26*), 5 (29*), 6 (32*)
Irons--Callaway X-20, 7-AW
SW--Wilson Prostaff
LW--Nancy Lopez
Putter--Bettinardi Hawk
all women's flex, left-handed
Balls--Pinnacle Gold Distance
Bags--Datrek IDS (cart); Sun Mountain 3.5 (carry)
Reply With Quote
 
iTrader: (0)
#13 (permalink)  
Old 11-19-2008, 07:24 PM
limpalong's Avatar
Old Geezer
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Posts: 970
limpalong is on a distinguished road
Quote:
Originally Posted by Wi-Golfer View Post
2 ways to look at it: One is the die hard "rules are rules" way & that being said, yes he did the right thing. However I think the rules, in fact a lot of the rules are archaic & need to be either eliminated or changed in some way. Michelle Wies disqualification earlier this year for that ridiculous signing of the score card deal is one such rule.

What harm & or advantage did Hayes gain by using the wrong ball for 2 shots? He took the penalty at the time which is harsh in & of itself. I just fail to comprehend exactly what the goal of some of these rules actually are.

How many of us when forced with a large/tough forced carry over water or other obstacle, will pull out a cheap ball & put the $4 ProV1 in the pocket? I know the answer already as everyone is going to claim "not me, I would never do that", even though I have seen it done by plenty of people. Including folks who post here as well as myself, do we then penalize ourselves for not playing the same brand of ball the entire rd? Not a chance of that happening.
I feel there are distinct differences between the rule broken by Hayes and the rule broken by Wie. There ARE many archaic rules that could/should be changed/modified/deleted. The scorecard issue with Wie is one! In fact, I would support doing away with scorecards altogether on tour. With the technology available today, scores could be recorded electronically. But, that's an entire different issue.

The use of a prototype ball... a non USGA tested/approved ball... is a much larger offense. (Greg Norman was disqualified some years back in a similar non-USGA-listed ball use.) If that rule was not enforced, the money on the line could see some really exotic balls appear in players' bags. On par 5's, one could use a ball with a special center core that would guarantee significantly longer distance. There are ball speed parameters in the USGA approval testing process. We just could not see balls begin to be used on tour that were not required to meet the requirements of the Rules of Golf.

As far as your example of we amateurs who change balls from hole to hole (using a "water ball") we ARE in violation of the Rules of Golf and should NOT post scores for handicap purposes. I've played with those who will use a Top Rock off the tee and then trade it out for a Pro V for their approach shot. Nope! Not permissible under the Rules of Golf. For recreational purposes... for scrambles... use what you want. For handicap purposes... for tourneys... use the same brand/model of ball for the entire round.

As far as Hayes... few sports are as self-policing as is the game of golf. Few professional sports have the... insist upon... exist because of the integrity of the players themselves. When you get to the level of these pros, you have developed a mindset of counting each and every stroke and playing COMPLETELY by the Rules of Golf.
__________________
Driver: Ping G10 10.5 degree w/V2HL
2 wood: Cleveland HiBore XL 16 degree
Hybrid: Ping G10 18 degree w/V2HL
Irons: Ping Eye 2+ BeCu 3-LW
Putter: Scotty Cameron Studio Design #5 Black Pearl w/MB stamp
Reply With Quote
 
iTrader: (2)
#14 (permalink)  
Old 11-19-2008, 07:49 PM
MCDavis's Avatar
The Plaid Duffer
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Posts: 4,827
MCDavis is on a distinguished road
Quote:
Originally Posted by ClairefromClare View Post
MC, you're repeating yourself again! Gosh, give the guy a promotion and he never shuts up.
I don't know why that keeps happening.
__________________
In the Ogio Vaporlite:
G5 10.5º G10 17º G10 21º i3 3-PW rac Black TP 52º & 56º YES! Callie Putter

I quit this game once...now I'm back...how dumb am I?
Quote:
Originally Posted by SiberianDVM
Once again, Shottalk spirals into The Twilight Zone...........................
RIP John "Bravo" Bretz 1955-2008
Reply With Quote
 
iTrader: (0)
#15 (permalink)  
Old 11-19-2008, 08:57 PM
Wi-Golfer's Avatar
Triple Bogey Jedi
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Posts: 3,683
Wi-Golfer is on a distinguished road
Quote:
Originally Posted by limpalong View Post
When you get to the level of these pros, you have developed a mindset of counting each and every stroke and playing COMPLETELY by the Rules of Golf.

I agree with this completely & it's one of the reasons the pro's could walk all over us out on the course. How many of us hackers actually follow every single rule to the letter?
__________________
Driver: TM Burner 11.5º w Aldila Proto "By You".
3w: TM Burner
4w: TM R7
3H: TM Burner Rescue
4H: TEE CB2
5H: TM Burner Rescue
6-GW: Cleveland Launchers
53º: Cleveland 588
Putter: TM Tourismo

Driver #2: TM R7 425 TP, 9.5º Prolaunch Red
Driver #3: Callaway FT-i 11º n with 586 speeder
Maruman 3-SW
Reply With Quote
Reply

Bookmarks

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On
Forum Jump


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 06:31 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.7.4
Copyright ©2000 - 2009, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Search Engine Friendly URLs by vBSEO 3.2.0 RC8
Copyright © 2004 -2008 shottalk.com