Vaughn Taylor cheats!

[Lucas]

Did anyone else see Vaughn Taylor's ball move? During the final round of last weekend's Buick Open Mr. Taylor's drive on the short #12 ended up in the rough 66 yards from the green. Checking his lie, he grounded his club behind the ball and then picked it back up again. When he did this his ball moved to the left about a half inch and was caught on camera, all the while he was looking directly at the ball. He did not impose a penalty on himself and went on to tie for fourth in the tournament which springboarded him over several players and into seventh place in the Ryder Cup standings.

[flomarilius]

What an awesome first post you put up man. Man how many times have you done that and have not imposed a penalty upon yourself? If the PGA didnt catch it too bad, move on and deal with it because they have bigger thigns to worry about.

[Augster]

I don't know if I deleted it or not off of my Tivo. I'll take a look if it's still there.

I'd be careful using the word "cheat" around these parts though, lest you get lambasted.

Just FYI, it is OK for the ball to oscillate as long as it doesn't "move". If you say it moved half an inch, that wouldn't be oscillation.

Welcome to the board.

[Sandpiper3]

Just FYI, it is OK for the ball to oscillate as long as it doesn't "move". If you say it moved half an inch, that wouldn't be oscillation.

If it moved a halfinch? thats not considered as the ball "moving"?? elaborate on this, cause something very similar happend to my playing partner in my last tourney and he got the penalty?

[Eracer]

Originally Posted by Sandpiper3

If it moved a halfinch? thats not considered as the ball "moving"?? elaborate on this, cause something very similar happend to my playing partner in my last tourney and he got the penalty?

Read Augster's post.

He said, "Just FYI, it is OK for the ball to oscillate as long as it doesn't "move". If you say it moved half an inch, that wouldn't be oscillation."

[AccuFLEX]

I know Vaughn (not super well) but I really feel like this must have been an error, he is a good guy, and is a golf pureist, if he saw it "move" I feel he would have penalized himself, I give him the benefit of the doubt, let's hope so anyway.

Welcome to the Forum!

[Lucas]

First, thanks to all for the "welcomes"! I apologize for coming in with a such a controversial topic. But, I will gladly take on all 'cheaters' or those who support cheating.

Now, let me address flomarilius. Golf, unlike any other sport I know of, is one where players are relied on to be honest and impose penalties on themselves when necessary. It is not the PGAs role to "referee" tournaments. The PGA officials are present at tournaments to assist the players with rules and penalty clarifications when situations arise. If you do not understand this, I feel sorry for your playing partners.

I have more to say in regards to Mr. Vaughn and will post again shortly.

Still wondering though, if anyone has had a chance to go back and watch Vaughn's 12th hole.

[Lucas]

Ok, now more on Mr. Taylor.

Even though I was watching the tournament live, being the golf nut I am, I was recording it (DVR) as well in case it turned into a re-watchable final round. It didn't. Tiger's three early birdies squashed that. But I do still have it. I have watched it several times to make sure my eyes weren't deceiving me in regards to Vaughn's ball moving.

Immedietely after seeing this happen live I called my wife in to watch and I didn't even tell her what to watch for. Right away she said, "his ball moved." During rewinds I watched Vaughn's head and, like we all do when grounding the club behind the ball, he was looking at the ball the entire time. In fact, because I knew his mind was not on his shot at hand, I correctly called a poor shot to follow. He chunked his clear 66 yard pitch (pin was close to the back of the green) which didn't even make it to the putting surface. He followed that up with his worst drive of the day on the next tee box. I'm convinced he saw the ball move, leading to these extremely poor shots.

Mr. Taylor did not win the tournament, although he did receive prize money that should have gone to other players. Possibly players on the bubble who are fighting to keep their cards. But on Monday when I realized that Vaughn's finish moved him, as things currently stand, onto the Ryder Cup team and into seventh in the standings, I became very bothered. In my opinion, the Ryder Cup is a sacred event that some players might only have one chance in which to participate. There are still several tournaments to go before the team in finalized, but if he were to now make the team based on the points he just received it would be a travesty. Maybe karma will work it's mysterious course, and he will not make the team. But this issue is what bugs me the most about this incident.

[token_hottie]

What is the statute of limitations on something like this? Is there any way (if his ball did move) for this to be reconciled?

[smitty]

The use of the word "cheat" and the unequivocal nature of your judgment seems a bit uncalled for. You have no way of telling for sure what he saw. The fact that his head was pointed in a direction towards the ball does not tell you what his eyes were looking at or that he actually saw the ball move. I'm not saying that he did not see the ball move, but it seems a bit presumptuous on your part to conclude that he must have seen it move and that he deliberately broke a rule. Frankly, I'd give the guy the benefit of the doubt, unless I knew this was part of a pattern or there were other reasons to doubt his integrity.

[Pa Jayhawk]

Originally Posted by token_hottie

What is the statute of limitations on something like this? Is there any way (if his ball did move) for this to be reconciled?

If he incurred a penalty stroke that he did not include on his scorecard, and in fact signed the scorecard as he must, he would be disqualified from the tournament for signing an incorrect scorecard. I am sure he will have a chance to review the incident, and if he does in fact clearly see a infraction, he will in fact disqualify himself. I know very few golfers who would not do so. Usually it happens after the event. It would be worse if he possibly ruined his Ryder Cup chances to later find out it didn't move, and DQ'ed himself unnecessarily. And can only think of one time where a player did not do so in a seniors tour event, upon clearly whiffing a tapin putt for the win, and saying it was a practice stroke.

I did not see the occurance with Taylor, although I tend to believe if there was an infraction, he may have chosen not to disqualify himself until he determines if the ball did move for the reasons mentioned. Does he want to DQ himself from the tournament and the Ryder Cup if he was unsure. It very well may have affected his next 2 shots simply because he may have known that he would have to disqualify himself if he was uncertain at the time.

[Lucas]

Flomarilius, here is a story that Ian Woosnam talks about in September's issue of Golf Digest that kinda relates.

Mr. Woosnam had just finished the first hole, a par three, with a birdie and was very much in contention to win the tournament. On the second tee his caddie, Miles Byrne, told Ian they had an extra driver in the bag. Fuming, Ian immedietely found an official and confirmed a two shot penalty and then went on to card two more "shook up" bogies on the next two holes. He eventually finished second to David Duval by four strokes. The incident very well may have cost him the Open Championship! Even though he never used the club, had no intention of using the club, and no one noticed the extra club except his caddie, he understood that the rules are the rules and such a situation required the penalty. In the article he stated that it would have been very easy for his caddie to go to a porta potty, or wherever, and dispose of the club with no one knowing.

But this is not how we play our game.

[Lucas]

Sorry, left out that Mr. Woosnam was playing the final round of the 2001 British Open.

[Lucas]

I agree, it is possible he did not see the ball move. But think about it. What he did, placing the club behind the ball to see how the lie looked with no intention of taking a stroke, is something we all do... often. When I do this, my full attention is on the clubhead and the ball, for one to make sure I don't touch the ball or disturb grass that might cause the ball to move. And my eyes do not leave the ball until the clubhead is safely removed. I am fairly certain this is common among all players. I have never seen a player ground and remove his club from the ball while looking at something else.

[ThatCanadianGuy]

Send the tape to the USGA or PGA..were ever necessary.