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2019 The PGA Discussion Thread

Discussion in 'Golf Tournament Talk' started by azgreg, May 13, 2019.

  1. azgreg

    azgreg "Don't count that." Supporting Member

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    [​IMG]

    This is a bucket list course for me.
     
  2. azgreg

    azgreg "Don't count that." Supporting Member

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    Bethpage State Park Golf Courses

    • Green Fees (non-NYS resident)
    • Black Course
      Weekdays (18 Holes): $130
      Weekdays (Twilight): $78
      Weekends (18 Holes): $150
      Weekends (Twilight): $90
    • Green Fees (Residents)
    • Black Course
      Weekdays (18 Holes): $65
      Weekdays (Twilight): $39
      Weekends (18 Holes): $75
      Weekends (Twilight): $45
      Senior Citizens and Juniors (Weekdays): $42
      Seniors Citizens and Juniors (Twilight): $25
    Black Course

    The Black Course is a difficult and challenging course that should be played only by low-handicap golfers. The course is for walkers only and its slope rating is one of the highest in the northeast. This was one of the last courses designed by master golf course architect A.W. Tillinghast, and is said by many to be his finest work. The Black Course served as the site of the 102nd U.S. Open Championship in 2002, the Barclays in 2012/2016, PGA Championship in 2019, Northern Trust in 2021/2027 and the Ryder Cup in 2024. Our National Championship returned to the Black in 2009. The narrow fairways, high roughs, well placed bunkers and small greens help to make this an extremely difficult course.

    The Black Course is closed Mondays for course maintenance except holidays.
     
  3. ualtim

    ualtim Carrollton, TX Supporting Member

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    “The course is for walkers only”

    Unless your name is John Daly....
     
  4. limpalong

    limpalong Mental Ward Escapee Supporting Member

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    I don't agree with allowing him to use a cart. Didn't agree with allowing Casey Martin to use one. If you are playing professional football, baseball, etc. and have a physical issue where you cannot participate... you sit it out. Still cannot understand why it doesn't put those having to walk this long course at a disadvantage to someone who is allowed to ride. Maybe Daly will consume enough Jack Daniels during one of the rounds he'll wreck the cart and bow out.
     
  5. ualtim

    ualtim Carrollton, TX Supporting Member

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    Casey Martin was a tough one, I could see both sides of the argument. Daly should not get rewarded for abusing his body and then get a cart when his body starts to show signs of wear from that abuse. Daly will melt down prior to the weekend cart or no cart. He will not be a factor.
     
  6. IrishGolfer

    IrishGolfer Fac ut gaudeam Supporting Member

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    I'm not sure anyone has fun playing a course like this. It's a slog, a statement that your "survived". In my prime and at my best we used to play SHGC from the US Open tees. It was 230-240 just to reach the fairway on some holes. Hit it in the rough and it was gouge out with a wedge. Greens were tricked up too. My best ever round was a 75 (+5) and I holed pretty much everything! Some of the members would shoot well into the 100s when I looped for them. There was not a lot of joy in those rounds and they insisted on playing from the medal tees.

    Even the pros won't enjoy this week. It has the hallmarks of a US Open with maybe -4 winning. I'm not sure how they have set it up, hopefully, it's not a slogfest. 7,600 yards par 70, wet rough. No thanks.
     
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  7. eclark53520

    eclark53520 DB Member Extraordinaire Supporting Member

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    I love John as a golfer, but he should NOT be allowed to ride. Either be in shape enough to walk the course, or don't compete.

    Educated myself on the Casey Martin case...I don't understand how that's ADA related....he's not being discriminated against because he has a disability...they didn't say, you have a disability, you cannot compete. He can compete given he follows the rules of the game, which by themselves are not discriminatory.


    IMO, if he's allowed a cart to compete at golf, then a guy without arms should get an automatic ball launcher so he can play QB in the NFL. Not allowing him the ability to throw the ball because of his disability is the same discrimination.
     
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  8. MCDavis

    MCDavis The Plaid Duffer Staff Member Moderator

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    Completely agree about Big John...love him as well.

    Casey Martin got a cart because the PGA caved to perceived public opinion.
     
  9. PaPaD

    PaPaD Club ho, geezer........ Supporting Member

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    Self-imposed obesity is not a disability.
     
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  10. eclark53520

    eclark53520 DB Member Extraordinaire Supporting Member

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    I read that he 'successfully sued' the PGA. Now, I don't know if they just conceded the cart because of the lawsuit, or if they were required, by law, to allow the cart as part of the ADA.

    If it's the first, well, whatever. If it's the second, that opens a whole can of worms IMO to the scenario I posted above...where people that lack the physical ability to do the job, for whatever the reason, sue to be able to hold the position.
     
  11. MCDavis

    MCDavis The Plaid Duffer Staff Member Moderator

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    Actually, I had forgotten about the lawsuit. Here is the result, he did win. Which sucks.

    Supreme Court Ruling: PGA Tour v. Martin
     
  12. TEA Time

    TEA Time Grumpy Gilmore Staff Member Admin

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    I don't get the hate for Casey Martin, he has a circulatory disease. Would you guys feel the same if someone couldn't walk long distances due to a respiratory disease was allowed to ride?
     
  13. eclark53520

    eclark53520 DB Member Extraordinaire Supporting Member

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    The rules to compete are the rules to compete. I don't care why you can't walk 18 holes. If you can't do it, you shouldn't compete against the guys who do. I would also be fine with the ruling that if someone gets an exemption to ride a cart in that tournament, anyone has the ability to request a cart for the tournament. Riding in a cart is a clear competitive advantage against those who have to walk it. Period.

    Follow the rules, or don't compete. The fact that the government has their hands in a privately owned competition is bullshit.

    I don't hate Casey. Don't even know the guy.
     
  14. TEA Time

    TEA Time Grumpy Gilmore Staff Member Admin

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    Is there a specific rule that says you must walk? I found references to things like "as a general rule..." but nothing concrete such as "Rule 13.2.b states players must walk..."

    The Martin case was back in 2001. How many players have you heard riding in carts since then? I've heard of zero. It was also for Q-School which was famously physically demanding. He was also good enough to compete but needed a cart due to a physical disability. The USGA has a provision for players with disabilities but ADA protection is going to trump other rules every time.

    As for John Daly, he requested the cart because he has arthritis in his knee, not because he's fat.
     
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  15. limpalong

    limpalong Mental Ward Escapee Supporting Member

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    Casey Martin was allowed to ride a cart while playing two U.S. Opens. At Olympic in 1998, he placed 23rd. He missed the cut at a U.S. Open in 2012.
    The "walking only" is a PGA/R&A rule. It is not required by the Rules of Golf. The Champions Tour (senior tour) allows participants to ride. Many from that Tour have played in regular PGA events... and have walked. Whether we agree with the rule or not, to me it is a requirement of play in a PGA event. Hence, if you allow one player an advantage over the others, that compromises the integrity of the scoring for the entire event.
     
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  16. eclark53520

    eclark53520 DB Member Extraordinaire Supporting Member

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    PGA rule for their competitions, not USGA rule of golf.

    ADA shouldn't trump private voluntary competitions, IMO. That's not how freedom should work. That's my argument. Obviously the courts disagree with me. If he wants to create another golfing association where people can ride carts, or play blindfolded, or use golf ball cannons or whatever rules he wants to imply, then please, feel free. But forcing a private entity to allow you a competitive advantage? That's wrong. Again, IMO.
     
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  17. PaPaD

    PaPaD Club ho, geezer........ Supporting Member

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    He may have arthritis in his knee BECAUSE of his self abusive lifestyle. Carrying all that weight is tough on the cartilage. If a player is not physically able to compete in a sanctioned event, he should withdraw, not ask for accommodation. These precedents will open a can of worms that may never be close-able.
     
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  18. MCDavis

    MCDavis The Plaid Duffer Staff Member Moderator

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    I don't hate Casey Martin either, I simply think the whole thing was a waste of time. Like previously said, abide by the rules or don't play. But, he takes it to the Supreme Court, makes a production, spends taxpayer dollars, and then doesn't really even compete. Waste of time.

    I feel bad that he has that much talent and a disability robs him of a real chance, but I still don't think he should be given different treatment.
     
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  19. ualtim

    ualtim Carrollton, TX Supporting Member

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    Koepka -5 through 12 holes. That foot is purely on the accelerator.
     
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  20. ualtim

    ualtim Carrollton, TX Supporting Member

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    As an afterthought on the Daly cart situation, I was discussing it with my wife (nurse) as they showed Daly on hole 2. Apparently, since the venue is a public course, they have to provide ADA accommodations. On a private course, they can not enforce ADA rules. Not sure if that is what lead to Daly getting a cart relatively easily compared to the struggles/lawsuits of Casey Martin, but it would leave the PGA in a legal bind as it is a public venue and fully subject to the ADA laws.
     
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