Cast vs. Forged

[Hangfire]

Before buying my Mizuno X-23's I tried the Callaway X-18's, what a difference! I don't know if it was the different design of the two clubs or the different process but I could feel a big difference between them. The Callaway's were lacking in the feedback department and were very easy to hit but the Mizuno's let me know exactly where I hit the ball, toe, heel, or sweet spot. I'm sure if anyone else tries the comparison they'll feel the difference too!

:miz:

 

[Eracer]

I've played everything since I was 14 in 1979,to many clubs to list.

Here I thought you were the sage old man of this board. And now I find out that you're just a young pup!

Sheesh...:laugh:

 

[warbirdlover]

Mizuno

Here is the Mizuno forging process. They make a statement "grains are "tightened" and alligned. What a bunch of horse manure!! You can't make steel "more dense" then it normally is. They are working the metal and alligning the grains which increases the strength but it's not from "tightening" anything. Physics-ally impossible. Steel has a density of 7.85 g/cm and you can't change that. This kind of advertising is what puts these weird ideas into everyone's head.

Mizuno

Here's forging flow lines which are brought out by sectioning the part and etching with a strong nitric acid to methanol etchant. I've done this hundreds of times. (These "wonderful" flow lines cause more distortion in carburizing - case hardening - gears so we "get rid of them" by another special heat treatment)...

 

[warbirdlover]

Cleveland golf is another one with slick advertising of their "new" CMM metal... All it is is "ductile" iron which has been around for years. Here's their add. The ductile iron has graphite nodules which absorb sound and vibration. Now (other then the "new" material bull) this is something that really can change "feel" on a club. These should feel about as nice as anything out there.

Cleveland Golf, Irons CG2™ Irons

 

[warbirdlover]

Remember the liquid metal drivers? They are illegal because they were making them out of the newest metal discovery "metallic glass" or another term is "amorphous metal". Here is a metal that in a few years will revolutionize everything we ever knew about making products out of metal.

Steel (or iron) when cooled forms the crystalline grain structure. The grain "boundaries" are the weak points in steel where fractures usually follow. Metallic glass is made by cooling the metal so fast it does not have time to form crystalline structure and so there are no weak spots! If you bend it, it will "spring" back to it's original shape. Truly amazing stuff.

ScienceDaily: Metallic Glass: Material Of The Future?

Metallic glass research at JHU

Metallic glass: a drop of the hard stuff - mech-tech - 02 April 2005 - New Scientist Tech

amorphous metals

 

[BStone]

I've played forged irons for most of my life, mostly as a result of the design of irons that I played were almost always a forged model. I will not play a cast club at this point, most of it is mental, since some of the cast clubs that are available now have vibration dampening materials that help soften the feel of the club a great deal. There is just something in my head that tells me that the club I am hitting is going to feel soft. An interesting point about sound was brought up in an earlier post, I do think that forged clubs have a duller sound which makes one think that they are softer as well.

 

[JEFF4i]

Anyone else think that the Mizuno metal looks rather phalic?

 

[mr3856a]

Before buying my Mizuno X-23's I tried the Callaway X-18's, what a difference! I don't know if it was the different design of the two clubs or the different process but I could feel a big difference between them. The Callaway's were lacking in the feedback department and were very easy to hit but the Mizuno's let me know exactly where I hit the ball, toe, heel, or sweet spot. I'm sure if anyone else tries the comparison they'll feel the difference too!

:miz:

I'd say it's because the Mizuno's are forged and the Callaways are best used for gardening.

 

[mr3856a]

But you have many pros playing "hard" Ping cast irons.

Yeah, for a nice big fat check

What was the number one iron on the PGA Tour before the invention of the endorsement deal?

:miz:

Since this is an argument like husbands and wives arguing I'm done. Wives argue "feelings". Husbands argue "facts". Neither one wins.

Would you mind explaining this to my girlfriend? :laugh:

 

[ualtim]

What was the number one iron on the PGA Tour before the invention of the endorsement deal?

Wilson and McGreggor forged blades.

 

[MCDavis]

What was the number one iron on the PGA Tour before the invention of the endorsement deal?

See my avatar!:laugh:

My first irons were late 70's Wilson X-31 forged blades, followed by Wilson Staff forged tour blades handed down from my dad. This would've been around 1978 through the mid 80's. I then bought a set of Toski Perfect Match CCB's and played those until I quit golf in 2002. This past November, I started with the Toski's, then bought a set of rac OS2's and played them for about 2 months, and then started playing my MX-23's.

When I started the Toski's, I noticed they never felt as good as the 2 sets of Wilson's I had previously played. Even the sweetest hit didn't quite have the same feel. The rac OS2's felt basically the same as the Toski's. Then I started playing the Mizzy's, and to me they just feel better.

Someone mentioned sound, and I agree. My wife and my playing partner have both commented on how much better my 23's sound than their clubs (he plays 96 Big Berthas, she's been playing Ram Accubars). I have noticed a definite difference in the sound of the Mizzy's, also, and to me it's better. And IMHO sound is a very big part of feel.

I can't argue the engineer's stuff, but I can tell you that memory tells me the best feeling/sounding irons I've played have been the Wilson's and the Mizuno's, all forged.

I played my old X31 7 iron one day with the rac's. On that day, it was the best feeling club in my bag.

Will I always play forged? I don't know. The Toski's are newly shafted and are my beach set. I have 100% confidence in every club in that bag, including the 2 iron. I'm fixing to re-grip the X31's so I can play with them once in a while. I probably will never part with either set. And, I will play a set of Ping's before I leave this world. My dad now plays G2's and loves them. I've always wanted to play Ping's. It simply will happen.

For now, however, my favorite set is the Mizuno's. :miz:

 

[mr3856a]

Wilson and McGreggor forged blades.

Uh, not in the 90's it wasn't.

Hint: :miz:

 

[ualtim]

Uh, not in the 90's it wasn't.

Hint: :miz:

The endorsement deal was invented well before the 90's.

Johnny Miller didn't sign an edoresement deal with McGreggor in the 70's as his agent advised him that he would always play second fiddle to Jack.

You would have to go back to the 60's or early 70's before endoresement contracts were an issue, and even prior to that some players got paid to play certain brands of clubs. By the time the 90's rolled around, just about every pro had club endorsement contracts.

 

[mr3856a]

The endorsement deal was invented well before the 90's.

Johnny Miller didn't sign an edoresement deal with McGreggor in the 70's as his agent advised him that he would always play second fiddle to Jack.

You would have to go back to the 60's or early 70's before endoresement contracts were an issue, and even prior to that some players got paid to play certain brands of clubs. By the time the 90's rolled around, just about every pro had club endorsement contracts.

I understand that the top 3 or 4 players in the world had club endorsements before the 90's. Did the number 20 guy in the world have one in 1968? Doubtful. Did the number 3 guy have a club endorsement in 1978? Maybe. Did the number 30 guy? I wouldn't put money it.

Fact is, it was the mid- to late-90's when club manufacturers started handing out endorsement contracts like Sam's Club cards, and prior to that, Mizuno was the no. 1 iron on the PGA Tour. That was my only point.

 

[dave.]

Every single top player in the fifties had a deal,including number 30,they just weren't paid anything,just got free clubs and balls