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Did you guys see this?!??!?!

Discussion in 'General Golf Talk' started by BigJim13, Apr 4, 2011.

  1. BigJim13

    BigJim13 Well-Known Member Staff Member Moderator

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    I finally got around to reading last weeks Golf World. GW is by far my favorite golf mag, ZERO instruction and 90% golf talk. Anyway, that interviewed some big names in golf and there were some interesting insights.

    Some of the more interesting:

    Jack Burke Jr: "alot of kids on tour hire instructors, so they aren't really thinking for themselves about their technique and how to improve."

    Dean Beaman: "Hogan's got tomb rolling over in his grave. Take the top 20 players in the world today, give them the type of clubs Jack Nicklaus used in his prime and a mid 1970's ball-the best made- and.....put them on tour against other players using today's equipment and not one of the top 20 would win a tournament and week to week half would miss the cut"

    Dan Jenkins: "if you say Ben Hogan, Jack Nicklaus and Tiger woods to me and suggest they were the best ever, I'll say yes to the first 2 and then argue that Bobby Jones, Sam Snead and Byron Nelson should all rank ahead of Tiger. Why, you may ask? Because In my view Tiger's victories in major championships and elsewhere have come against much weaker competition and on easier courses.

    I thought there was some good insight, especially from guys like Jenkins. We often talk about who is the best ever. I have always had a bard time with this since I never saw guys like Hogan, Snead and even Nicklaus in their prime. These guys have.
     
  2. eclark53520

    eclark53520 DB Member Extraordinaire Supporting Member

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    I don't understand why you think this is 'interesting'.

    Give Jack Nicklaus a stick and stone, and i bet he wouldn't be as good as the rest of his field either.

    What does that prove? This is like saying Valentino Rossi isn't a great motorcycle racer because he can't beat his competition on 20 year old technology...

    Makes no sense what so ever. I don't think the era matters. They're all playing on a level field with the same technology. Who is great today, probably would have been great then, and vice versa. Let the past go, it's over.
     
  3. BStone

    BStone PGA Class A Professional Supporting Member

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    I tend to agree with Clark, it seems as though the older era players are more romanticized and elevated than the current players. I don't buy the competition angle either, who is to say that the players of today wouldn't have better records than past greats if Tiger wasn't there? in 2000, Ernie Els came in second in the first three majors, without Tiger he would have still been second to Vijay at the Masters and he would have won or been in a playoff at the US and British Opens, more than respectable against the Nicklaus, Hogan, or Nelson single season bests in the majors.

    I don't think Hogan or Nelson would have been as good if they used the same equipment as Young Tom Morris or even Harry Vardon, so does that mean they was better than Hogan or Nelson?
     
  4. BigJim13

    BigJim13 Well-Known Member Staff Member Moderator

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    Why wouldn't I think it's interesting?

    I agree on your point about technology though. It's tough to compare equipment from even 10 yrs ago to today, let alone 40 yr old stuff.

    I liked what Jack Burke Jr said though about having coaches for their coaches, and that I do agree with.

    As for why I'm interested, really more out of curiosity for others reaction I guess. I have often wondered about how guys like Hogan, Snead & Nelson compare to Jack & Arnie and then later Tiger and whoever else.passes for great in the last 25 yrs (Faldo, Seve?). I like the perspective of somebody who has seen everybody from Hogan to Tiger and hear what that person thinks. My reasoning: I have watched Tiger and how dominant he was and wondered if Jack, Arnie or Hogan was that way.
     
  5. eclark53520

    eclark53520 DB Member Extraordinaire Supporting Member

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    The other quotes were interesting...just the one specific one I quoted i didn't think was interesting at all. It was a common sense statement. No doubt every single player on tour would probably do worse with the club technology from 20 years ago...i don't understand why that's so amazing to people.

    You also have to look at the 'old man syndrome' as i call it. Everyone seems to be comfortable or most impressed with objects/people/whatever that happened or they did around the time they were 18-30 or so. The same reason my grandpa swore to me computers would pretty much end this world. "These damn kids today don't even have to learn to read, the computer will just sound it out for them. They don't have to learn math, it computes everything for you. They don't have to learn any history, they will just look it up online. No one will know anything in their brain anymore and that, son, will be the death of the human race."

    I don't think having several coaches is a problem. I know to perform on the course, they still need to know what they're doing.
     
  6. BigJim13

    BigJim13 Well-Known Member Staff Member Moderator

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    There was more to the quote and interview with Burke than what I put in. He was basically saying that teaching for however many years helped him to be a better player. Also he made the point that Hogan, Snead & Nelson either had no or very little teaching while Nicklaus' teacher never set foot on the tournament practice area. My take was that players from those times "owned" swings more so than players today, which I agree with.
     
  7. eclark53520

    eclark53520 DB Member Extraordinaire Supporting Member

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    Yeah, i agree that the older players 'owned' their swings more so than today's players.

    Which was always cool to see the more unconventional swings back in the day. You don't see that much anymore. There are a couple, but not many.
     
  8. VtDivot

    VtDivot SLIGHTERED Supporting Member

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    I could watch Arnold Palmer drink iced tea and get a woody.

    Maybe that's a bit of an exaggeration. I like the romance of the older era - the stories, the challenges, pranks etc.

    BTW - Arnie gives a mean interview also, best in the business IMO
     
  9. Esox

    Esox Well-Known Member Supporting Member

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    Most guys today are robots. Same swing, same look in their eyes. Very few have good hair. I agree Palmer no doubt had, hell, has, more charisma than today's entire tour put together. And Tiger when he was winning may have excited some with that dumb ass fist pump, but in an interview he never says anything even remotely of interest. I can't stand him. Never could.

    I'm getting old to the point where I think everything used to better. Food, cars, golf, women, only TV is better than it used to be. The shows and the box itself.

    Kevin
     
  10. xamilo

    xamilo Right Curving Driver.... Supporting Member

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    The thing is, if for example Jack and Tiger would have played in the same era, they wouldn't have been as great together as they are now. The 18 mayors Jack won would have been distributed with Woods, let's say, 10 for Jack and 8 for Woods? that would have made two AWESOME players, but maybe not any better than Palmer, Watson, Player, etc. Maybe Sergio Garcia would have really given a step forward without Tiger and might have won 12 mayors in his era beating both of them!!!

    Just like Federer who would already have won 50 Grand Slam titles and be considered the best player ever if Nadal wouldn't have come to the scene and started "taking away" all those titles in the last few years. If Nadal continues his rhythm, he will surpass Federer and the Swiss would be remember just as "one of the top players".

    Every player has its era. You can't say someone would be or not good in another, it's just not theirs...
     
  11. VtDivot

    VtDivot SLIGHTERED Supporting Member

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    I mostly agree about the technology - especially for sports.

    The best show of all time still has to be M*A*S*H
     
  12. VtDivot

    VtDivot SLIGHTERED Supporting Member

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    Unless of course you are from Brantford Ontario and you have 99 on the back of your sweater...
     
  13. Rockford35

    Rockford35 Shark skin shoes Staff Member Admin

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    Having Cement Head to stop guys from gooning you and a group of all stars on your team helps. ;)

    Do you think Wayne would excel in today's hockey? I'm honestly asking you this. I'm not so sure.

    R35
     
  14. BigJim13

    BigJim13 Well-Known Member Staff Member Moderator

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    I don't know about Gretzky, but you can't tell me that Jack would not excel in today's game with today's equipment.
     
  15. Rockford35

    Rockford35 Shark skin shoes Staff Member Admin

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    Agreed, Jim. But I do believe it's an apples and oranges thing between golf and hockey.

    On one hand, you have arguably the best of his era hitting shots that would still hold out on just about any course, even with the Tiger-proofing. Jack was an enigma, but he would still hold his own on Tour today if you have him today's equipment and his talent.

    On the other hand, you have arguably the greatest hockey player ever who played in an era where equipment was smaller/optional (see: helmets), guys smoked on the benches and between periods, didn't hit the gym and came into the league very green. Now, you're getting the highest level of play from day one and guys are just so much quicker and bigger that there just isn't the room to set up shop behind the net and pass at will. There's also less respect for one and other throughout the league, much less than in the past. A guy like Gretzky isn't "off limits" like he was for the vast majority of his career.

    R35
     
  16. shep3470

    shep3470 Well-Known Member

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    Let's just have the pro's tee it up in tourney where all they can use is old equipment. Using a niblick to get it in the hole......think we know who would do best at that. :biglol:
     
  17. BigJim13

    BigJim13 Well-Known Member Staff Member Moderator

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    Good point about Gretzky and his era vs this era. I guess that comparison works for most sports-baseball, football etc.

    I just keep wondering though if Jack was as good or better than Tiger. Because if my age (32) I never saw Jack in his prime. The only great golfer I have ever seen is Tiger, just curious how he compares to players of old, I think Dan Jenkins gave a good insight into that since he has covered golf for 50+'years
     
  18. sssmokin

    sssmokin Retired and loving it Supporting Member

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    Too.....much.....thinking,................head...........hurts.......
     
  19. nututhugame

    nututhugame Winter Sucks! Supporting Member

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    I remember posting an analogy involving Micheal Jordan on this topic a while back...
     

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